🎙️Ep.6: Challenge Accepted… with Wezi Thindwa

What This Episode is About

This episode of The Bridge takes us through Wezi’s journey from Malawi to the classroom to her role at Adobe, weaving together themes of resilience, identity, and community. You’ll hear how moments of doubt—like failing big exams or freezing during presentations—actually shaped her into a stronger, more intentional educator and leader. The conversation highlights how passion isn’t always instant; sometimes it grows through struggle, failure, and persistence. At its heart, this is a story about showing up bravely, finding your voice, and remembering that every challenge is just another “challenge accepted.”

Meet Our Guest

Wezi Thindwa is an Education Evangelist on Adobe’s K-12 Community team, passionate about empowering students and educators through creativity and culturally responsive learning. A Malawian native raised in England and Virginia, her work is shaped by cross-cultural connections and a deep commitment to access and opportunity for all learners. She brings a rich background in education as a former instructional coach, technology facilitator, and administrator with advanced degrees and certifications in Education Leadership, Curriculum & Teaching (M.T.), Instructional Coaching, Business Marketing and TESOL.

🔗 Wezi on TikTok

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🔗 Wezi on LinkedIn

💻 Wezi’s Website

Key Takeaways

• Passion doesn’t always arrive fully formed—it often grows through struggle, failure, and persistence.
• Wezi failing her teaching exams twice, only to be lifted up by professors who saw her potential, showing the power of advocacy and belief.
• Lean into the messy moments—whether it’s scissors taking over your lesson or a PD flop—because each one holds lessons that sharpen your practice.
• Belonging and mentorship can transform challenges into opportunities, reminding us that educators don’t have to navigate the journey alone

Transcript

Cate: Welcome to the Bridge, Wezi.

Wezi: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I am really excited and honored to be invited to be part of the bridge and hopefully I can reciprocate the joy that I receive from our community and the educator community back into this space. So I appreciate it

Cate: Yeah, absolutely. So, Wezi Thindwa, you have a fantastic backstory, a global backstory that maybe, people don't know all about you. And so let's start with just you. Where did you come from? How did you get to where you're at, where are you, all that good stuff.

Wezi: Yeah. The older I get, the more I feel like it's like, it's increasingly 

Cate: Okay. 

Wezi: because I am from Malawi, born in Malawi, um, and my family moved from there when I was relatively young, when I was very young, And we moved from Malawi to California 

Cate: Ah,

Wezi: about a year. And then from California to England. I was in England until I was 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: um, going on 15 and moved to the States. It was a mid-year, move International group. 

Cate: not disruptive in your, in your teenage years.

Wezi: I was in, year 10 in England, so I was in ninth grade here. So I came through ninth grade year from English schools over to here.

So didn't spend much time in Malawi. We were, I was in Malawi. We lived in Malawi, um, until I was three, well, I was three. I was, you know. Three years. But, um, something that I really appreciate came to appreciate and cherish my parents for doing when we were growing up in England, and just trying, you know, my parents would try to just break, do find their way.

my home

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: my mom was home and as an immigrant family, you know, tried to keep things together. So they said, we are not big spenders. We are not going to have, you know, lots of gifts and parties. It was just me and my two, brother I've got two brothers, I mean, right in the middle. And so we didn't, you know, go on those like one week or two week 

Cate: Right. 

Wezi: holidays

really, or do anything like that.

But what they committed to was that every other summer we were gonna spend the whole summer back home in Malawi 

Cate: Oh, wow.

Wezi: So, um. I feel like without that, I would feel very disconnected

from Malawi 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: But because of that, you know, we were able to, it was always home, like we're going back home in next year, or whatever it was. And then, after moving to the States, I made 

Cate: mm-hmm.

Wezi: you know, kind of solo trips and, um, but my family was increasingly scattered 

Cate: Right. 

Wezi: know,

as we were getting older, like somebody was going over here to work, someone's over in China, so was over in India. We got family in the UK still. Um, and so, uh, but always trying to stay very connected with them, which I do feel that way. Um, and so, yeah, so that's why I still feel, I would say global-ish 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: Like,

you know, I didn't have that many formative years necessarily in 

Cate: Mm-hmm. 

Wezi: in

England. But, um. It's still de definitely very much like, uh, I feel very much like I've got three homes 

Cate: Oh,

Wezi: now been in the States for all of my adulthood 

Cate: right, right.

Wezi: Um, and yeah, so Virginia, we moved to Virginia. I was in Virginia, graduated Virginia High School 

Cate: Wow, wow.

Wezi: went to Virginia State College, uh, worked in Virginia public schools and then moved to New York City last year. 

Cate: Yeah,

Wezi: feeling very Virginia as well 

Cate: that's, well, and New York is such like an epicenter of global identity too, and so it's, it makes me wonder, like, like given your role at Adobe and knowing, what I know that, that Adobe is growing their own community and to be more focused on global, bringing everyone together. Like, do you see that?

Like whether or not it was meant to be. Do you see how all, like, do you make connections between like how you grew up and how you are living your life now with, with family all over the world? Like do you see that impacting the way you support educators now?

Wezi: Yeah, I think it's always been something that I've had an affinity 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: to is, um, connecting in immigrant 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: in international in um, just often growing up feeling very othered 

Cate: Right.

Wezi: Like being part of community or forming community 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: has always been something, Um. that felt kind of natural for me to do.

is because like I actually had to work at 

Cate: Right.

Wezi: Um, just like survival

and making friends and connections 

Cate: Yeah.

all of 

Wezi: all of 

that. So Part of the Adobe for All campaign of Adobe being such a global brand, it feels, if I feel right at home 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: in that in that type of environment, and educator, um, I had the best practicum experience anyone could have asked for.

I was very unsure about going into teaching, but I felt like very called to it 

Cate: Oh, interesting.

Wezi: um, I was very close to my, my grandmother on my father's side and she was a teacher and um, and she was very influential in my life, but. and also my mom's side, her father was, an educator 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: and we got several other educators in the family it, it felt, you know, like something that was always kind of there.

But I didn't necessarily wanna deal. so I didn't wanna become a lawyer 

Cate: Hmm. 

Wezi: you

know, I wanna do other things or I'll be an athlete. Um, and then, but you know, it was just some, there was just something magnetic about teaching. And when I got to college, I was like every job that I've had, like start the job or jobs that I've taken on my own have been with kids.

You know,

I was doing, like, I was working in a gym nursery. I was babysitting 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: and, um, I was, you know, working in camps and things like that.

So. As a teenager, and I, I really enjoyed that. I really felt like I was doing something impactful.

Then I got to college and I was like, I don't wanna be a teacher though.

Like, I think I'm, I'm good with that. Um, and so one of my advisors was just like, just, you know, the, there's like a probationary period almost with the School of Education. And so, you can take some classes and then see if you wanna continue and see if they even accept you 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: kind of deal. Um, so I did and I was all over the map and I had a good problem when I was in college.

And the reason why I call it a good problem is because I got to college realizing I was interested in so many things, and that hadn't been my experience in high school 

Cate: hmm.

Wezi: Um, in high school. I felt like what is 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: what. what. You know, I don't know. I don't know what my path is in this world. And I got to college and I was like, oh, this, there are a lot of paths.

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: um, I loved it. I loved every class that I took in the School of Education and I had the most amazing coordinate cooperating teacher during my practicum. And I was in a school district, public school district in Charlottesville. And this was a teacher she'd been teaching for 10 years and she was previously a lawyer who 

Cate: Oh wow.

Wezi: became a teacher. And, um, it, we had a very international population. that was a, a refugee camp nearby. So, uh, the school was pulling, um, from, uh, a lot of students from the camp and, um, she was so thorough and so supportive of my growth. 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: she was direct and she was a straight, you know, she was a straight shooter.

Like she, she would say it, it was gradual release for me. And I remember my, I remember the very first lesson where she said, you've got this one on your own. And I spent hours and hours and hours planning for it. And I was I was so nervous, even though I'd been with these students for months and or weeks at that time.

And I taught the lesson and it, it felt a little better at the back end than it did at the front end. And when we debriefed, I remembered, she asked me, the first question was, you know, how do I think it went? And then she said, you spent a lot of time, the students spend a lot of time cutting. Those, the scissors. and and we both looked at each other and I was just like, oh my gosh. Yes. And she was just like, you didn't plan for that. And I was like, I didn't plan for that. And um, And so she's, we're having this conversation and she's saying to me about like, even in focus on the details of the minutia and making sure students have this great experience or what truly matters here, 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: and also where are the students and what's going to detract from what really matters here? And so I had this activity for them, and I just didn't even factor in that I'm having them cut out the shapes that they were going to use to do the that consumed

consumed so much of the learning. So that's, so we had this conversation about. You know, the the academic learning time in a class when you are planning.

And so that's just an example of how, um, honest and, but also impactful our conversations were. Um, and pick, you know, like this is how much time you spent on that. Was that proportionate to how much time the students were actively thinking and critically thinking about this activity? Like who was doing the 

Cate: right.

Wezi: work here, 

Cate: And are we assessing scissor cutting? Is this what we're doing today?

Wezi: exactly, exactly. Because a lot of energy and support was given to scissor cutting 

Cate: Which is a, which is a skill.

Wezi: it is a skill, but it's with 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: they knew how to 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: and 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: to cut tiny those tiny shapes. 

Cate: But here, you know what I wanna say about that? Like, I used to have this poster up in my classroom and it said, if you, if you hear, if I tell you it's in your ear, if you learn it, it's in your head. And I feel like you had to experience that. Like, look at, it's still so real, like it's such a core memory for you.

Like you're telling that story right now. 

Wezi: core 

Cate: You learned that?

Wezi: a core memory. It's such a core memory, and which is why she was such a great teacher for me

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: Because Um, and because she was all about, did every student get the optimal learning experience that this was intended for them? Every student, I don't care what they're coming with, some of them have zero English.

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Some of them need additional support with, you know, maybe it's, um, intellectual difficulties. Some of them might be coming with fine, fine motor school issues. So you've got a few kids that didn't eat this how are they getting what they need

Right.

Wezi: Getting what they 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: um. Um, and I was seeing where my faults were and 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: reaching, but constantly like targeting and addressing that thing, and I had a partner doing it 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: and being eyes other, you know, another set of eyes I left, like, I'm so empowered.

And, um, I can't tell you how many people said, don't teach third grade in Virginia your first year of teaching. Like they have all the state standards 

Cate: Oh,

Wezi: It's a dump of 

of like, why?

sthosestandards of learning tests at the end of the year, they have four of them at the time, they had four of them at the end of the year.

It was their first 

Cate: Got it.

Wezi: you know, going from 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: third grade is already a 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: And then, um, working with third graders, knowing 

Cate: I

Wezi: there's, 

Cate: the stakes. Were so high. Right.

Wezi: the stake, the such high 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: And so they're like, as a first year teacher, it's really overwhelming, you know, it can lead to a lot of burnout for, and I was just like, challenge accepted.

I had the best third graders and, uh, and so 

Cate: I, love it.

Wezi: I taught third grade and I stuck with the, I was just like, nobody's, nobody's telling me not to teach third grade. I, I love third grade. My, my cooperating teacher too, she was just like, this, we are doing third grade 

Cate: Yeah. Yeah.

Wezi: know? 

Cate: That's awesome. Do you still talk to that cooperating teacher? Do you have a relationship?

Wezi: you know, we, we did on 

Cate: Yeah,

then I dropped 

Wezi: then I 

Cate: know. Yeah.

Wezi: ago, and then I lost, we lost touch.

Um, and her name is Mary Plank, by the way. So Mary Plank, 

Cate: Oh my god, I wanna find her.

Wezi: Mary Plank in Charlottesville, 

Cate: I love it.

Wezi: you are an absolute star in my life 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: yeah, and the students that we had that year was such a, just a, such a wonderful class. Like we had great rapport with their parents as well 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: And, um, we had, we had a couple students who were in America for the first time that year. Like that was their first year in the states. Quite actually, quite a few 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: Um, not necessarily from refugee, um, background, but other spaces, other places too. So yeah, I just, uh, but going back to your question that I really veered off of that, but just, uh, having a community community has always been something very important to me. And also my parents worked reason 

Cate: Mm. 

Wezi: Like the reason

why we moved from Malawi is my, my dad was working in international development. 

Cate: Got it.

Wezi: those are, you know, dinner table talks 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: is how are we making the world a 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: Um, so that's kind of been, yeah, that's kind of 

Cate: You know?

Wezi: in my bloodline almost.

It's like, it's part, it's part of me to think in that way 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: and to, um, see people, you know, beyond the current land that we are sharing, but like, what, what else has brought us here, um,

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: And so community building was really a core focus 

Cate: Yeah, 

Wezi: And

when I became a teacher, I I, was sweating that first day of school because I was just like, and not everything's 

Cate: yeah. 

Wezi: ready.

I need to, you know, all And those pe my friends who know me know would probably say like, you'd still be 

Cate: Mm.

Wezi: today.

And yes, I have a little scatterbrained, um, and I do a little too much sometimes, it was

um, but it was important for me that, you know, everybody feels 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: welcome to space. I know that sounds very cliche, but as a student that didn't often 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: like I,

most of my teachers didn't 

Cate: Oh,

Wezi: correctly 

Cate: I literally, hmm. 

Wezi: name is four 

Cate: Yeah. Girl. Right. And, and I literally just wrote a blog post about the importance of saying names and saying them correctly, like it's, it's essential.

Wezi: yep. yep. So, 

um, yeah, that's just, it feels comfortable for me and it's a mission that I get 

Cate: mm.

Wezi: Adobe Um, Adobe for all, and, um, creating the future. And, you know, I just, Especially our team, like we want to inspire and empower next generation of lifelong 

Cate: Right,

Wezi: And I feel like that's like the core of teaching is like 

Cate: right. 

Wezi: and

empowering the next generation, 

Cate: It's not hard to get behind that.

Wezi: it's not hard to get, it's not like if you're not behind that, like really what are you behind? You know? so, um, I, the mission of teaching in general always felt like a very, no brainer 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: you know, uh, I'm doing something for the greater good, therefore can, you know, I, I'll, I'll take whatever comes with it.

Um, but also there's a dark side to that mentality too, is that sometimes it's like because you are doing work that's also service work 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: that you are also accepting less than really what you should accept 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: Um, and, you know, that can lead to that dissatisfaction.

And even beyond that, just the burnout, 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: and, um, just kind of feeling taken advantage of as a teacher when you are giving and giving and giving and you're not, you you know, like there's not a whole lot that's being poured back 

Cate: right.

Wezi: into you 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: the intrinsic motivation that you get from working with students and seeing them grow and, being, a partner in their life journey as well.

So it, it's definitely a fine line to walk. and and it's okay if it's, if it's a job as well 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: Like it's, oh, I, I might not feel called to teaching, but I'm really good at it and I work well with students

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: and, you know, it's paying my bills and I get to everyday 

Cate: Yeah, 

Wezi: something good every day. Like, that's fine 

Cate: totally.

Wezi: Um, not, you know, I, I think sometimes it's, it can feel like if you're not doing something that necessarily feels like a calling, then what are you doing? 

Cate: That's a lot of pressure for our people, right? I,

Wezi: so it's it's so, it's so much pressure. And was actually just saying this to a friend of mine today.

I was just like, the one thing that we all share in the human experience is that we change

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: people change and therefore sometimes, you know, you might find yourself like your passion has extended or that's changed, or, 

Cate: Hmm,

Wezi: You feel like your purpose is evolving and it's just all part 

Cate: totally. And there's some, like, talk about pressure. Like I, I think educators get, you know, because so many of us feel like it's a calling, then we end up putting this pressure on ourselves. We don't give ourselves permission to change. Like, like,

right. And I mean, you, you've lived it, I've lived it.

We've been fortunate enough and strategic enough with decisions we've made and things we've said yes to that have opened up doors. and you know that, I don't think it's lucky. Right. I think it's, you know. Like I say strategic, but I mean it in like the, the softest way, you know, because I didn't walk into all those opportunities or like, you know, connect with people on Twitter or start presenting because I was being quote unquote strategic.

Like, but, but in retrospect you realize like, wow, that was all kind of happening and it was, it was all leading to something else. yeah, and I, I really, there's something you said there. There's lots of things you said, but I've been, I'm writing little notes down so I can bring them up. So the one thing I think is interesting is when you say like, the teachers give so much and we're not often, they're not often poured back into 

Wezi: Mm-hmm. 

Cate: that I thought about.

And I wonder what your take of on this is, is like, leaders, like educational leaders, which many teachers turn, grow up to be.

Wezi: Mm-hmm. 

Cate: I think, I think that that not enough time is, is spent really thinking about. What should be poured back in, like, as an example, like what fills Wezi is not necessarily gonna fill Cate, you know,

Wezi: Right.

Cate: it's money, but it's not always money, you know?

And that's not always within edu leaders control. And so like, have you ever come across like, I don't know, is that something I'm just, I, I don't know what my question is, but I just kind of think about that. Like, like what, what needs to change or what needs to happen? Do we need to be voicing? What fills us?

Is that what teachers need to be hearing or what, I don't know.

Wezi: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's, that's a really great question and something and a consideration to have too. Um, I don't know what the answer is, but I, can speak from experiences that I've had with, I've, been fortunate to be around a lot really amazing leaders. I was working with staff in many different schools, and so I've, I've seen a lot and I've also seen where. Leadership can really make some missteps 

Cate: Right.

Wezi: um, 

Cate: not intentional.

Wezi: On, 

Cate: Exactly.

Wezi: not e Exactly. And I think something that can really help to boost the morale and just ge general sense of empowerment with staff is when whatever it is that you're doing, are people coming feeling like the work that I'm doing is important and the work 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: that I'm doing is valued because that type of sentiment, the type of sentiment that makes you feel good to wake up the next day and restart.

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: That's the, that's, the longevity sentiment. That's the sentiment that makes people want perform at their best. and. What factors into that and what contributes into that sentiment is visibility,

is voice, is can I am, am I seen in what I'm doing? And also is my growth appreciated? Because there's a lot of times where we feel so nervous of making mistakes 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: because everything is high stakes, right?

You wait, you are working with students like you're working with lives 

Cate: Yep.

Wezi: Like this is very important work. And then you've got somebody who's coming into your classroom maybe a couple times a year with a checklist 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: and um, you know, it can, it can really cause a lot of the self-doubt or the sense that I need to, like, I need to, actually need to perform at my best when really, like, you're doing your best everyday 

Cate: Right, right.

Wezi: Um, but it's how my my being valued, um, understood, like,

am I understood as a teacher and as a human being? Am I respected as a contributor in this greater vision 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: mission for what we're doing in this space together? You know, um, and I, I know that sounds like kind of broad in general, but it's amazing how long you can do something over and over again and not realize like you have lost the passion and the desire to do that thing. Like you can do it so, so robotically or automatically, but feel very empty inside while you're doing 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: it.

And , it's a very normal experience to have. You can also be energized, but you are having to draw on a lot of 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: for that energy outside of what you're

getting from the people that you're working with and the leadership around you.

And I think, um. It's really important what something that I've always valued as an instructional coach and in the work that I do now is like, I wanna, I wanna see the work that's happening 

Cate: hmm.

Wezi: Um, how did you get here? Like what is it that, how did you bring yourself into this? what are you seeing as the fruits of this?

Like what are the challenges that you're seeing, um, experiencing and walking into a classroom and, you know, seeing students just excited to just learn something new. That's how it should be, right? Like, we should all feel very excited to be learning something new. Even as teachers 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: when you have teachers who are coming professional development, and this is actually, this has happened, right?

Teachers will sign in and then leave 

Cate: Oh, huh, huh.

Wezi: like, let me just get my name. 

Cate: Go to the bathroom and never come back.

Wezi: let me let me just, right, it's like it's a shared experience. It's just if you, if you are going into a space that says that, that has, that holds the promise that you are here as a means to improve work conditions or the work that you're doing, or to get a better understanding of the work that we are asking you to do or to have improvement, whatever it is, and you continually go into those places and you leave feeling worse than you did when you come in.

Like, that's a, that's a larger problem

Cate: I totally,

Wezi: like, I wanna get back in there right away and try this thing, or 

Cate: yeah. 

Wezi: I know, I

have clarity now

how the thing that has really been bugging me, how it can stop bugging me about, you know, what my instruction, or I know exactly what, how to use this particular tool now, um, which is holding me back because if I don't know how to use it, I'm not feeling confident to teach 

Cate: Right. 

Wezi: my students

to use it. So I do feel like professional development is a really, really important opportunity to encourage and empower teachers that you should come to professional development and feel professionally developed 

Cate: Okay, but what happens if they don't? Is that their fault or is that the presenter's fault? Or is it, you know what I mean? Like we both present,

Wezi: those are the data points we get. Yeah a lot. And what are our feedback surveys saying 

Cate: I don't know. I don't get to see them.

Wezi: I, I have, I have been in, um, I have been in on teams where the feedback survey, um, has been so thorough because we were part of it 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: it,

we asked that same question. Right. Uh, what, so what if they don't get what they're supposed to get, how will we know 

Cate: Right,

Wezi: and what are we gonna do 

Cate: right.

Wezi: about it?

And we

Cate: Yes. 

Wezi: for that

And so. Those conversations were really important in building the kind of, um, surveys and intake forms to, uh, help us answer those questions. But a lot of people have a hard time with that because those are hard questions that, you know, it's like very specifically, tell me how you think I did 

Cate: Yeah,

Wezi: Did I help facilitate your thinking 

Cate: yeah, 

Wezi: on a scale of zero to five 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: If it's a zero, like I have work to do, I need to go somewhere, get professional development about that. Um, but I have also completed surveys from workshops and trainings that I've been in that almost like a force feeding you into saying that.

Cate: Like fake positivity.

Wezi: Yeah. Um, that, that they don't necessarily want feedback feedback

about the person who was, who was leading the training or the person who designed the training. Um, they just like. know, 

um, 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: kind of general, general feel good 

Cate: Safe, safe questions, right?

Wezi: safe, safe questions.

And sometimes underlying issue there is that people know that maybe I am supporting a

program that might, that is where I need to show that this is, this program is worth having and I wanna keep my job. but ultimately, like, how, how do you continue to be effective and impactful if you're not people

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: from the people who you're supposed to be 

Cate: Okay. With

Wezi: honest and honest 

Cate: honest and, and how often do teachers get honest feedback like that? Right. And we're constantly, like, going back to what you said, we're constantly pouring out, we're constantly giving, and sometimes we get feedback from

students, like, or families, but like oftentimes that feedback is kind of layered, right?

Like there could be other factors that are being measured that you didn't necessarily ask for. 

right? Like, I mean, talk about othering, right? That happens and you're like, oh, I'm so sorry you had a bad day. And that then resulted in an email. That is my negative feedback. So thank you for that. 

Wezi: Mm-hmm. 

Cate: it, how do you, okay.

How do you, Wezi go, go from like, so you're in the classroom and now you're at Adobe, and I know we talked about this before we started recording, and people ask you this, like, how did you, how do, how do I get there? How do I get into ed tech? Like, I really am curious because. Part of what you, you were talking about is like the, the everyday challenges of being in the classroom and you like beautifully reek of teaching.

Like, like you just, you are an educator and, and you smell lovely. but, but like how did you make that choice and like, I'm curious like, how did you get there?

Wezi: Yeah. I always feel like my journey's unconventional, but then it's like, but everybody's journey has unconventional aspects to it. We are all 

Cate: Sure.

Wezi: unique. But, um, there wasn't, if I could go back, there's a lot of things that I could, I would do 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: And there are other things that I'm just kind of like,

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: lucky you, you know,

like, I'm so grateful was in 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: in the right time for this opportunity and, I, I learned a couple of guiding philosophies early in my career that I feel like set me up to I. almost like be 

Cate: Hmm. 

Wezi: right time

because I'm not somebody who is naturally forthcoming. Um, like always speak speak up in a room like I was a relatively shy kid. And so part of the issue that I did have when I was learning to be a teacher was the fact that I couldn't even speak in 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: And so the fact that I ended up spending the majority of my education career doing public speaking is so anyone

Cate: Oh my gosh. 

Wezi: the 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: that anyone could have seen from me, including myself when I was a student in high school, 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: I just, uh, nk, I'm not exaggerating. When I say this, like I could not 

Cate: Wow. 

Wezi: of people. I was taking a lot of graduate, I was taking a lot of, um, seminars and courses. I was doing a lot of credits. And once I got to the seminar stages, like you have to 

Cate: Yeah. Yeah.

Wezi: lot and I couldn't 

Cate: Wow,

Wezi: I ran out of two presentations. I literally got up there, the words on the page started swimming, and I just 

Cate: wow, 

Wezi: stage left. Um, after the last time that happened, I had an intervention between the prof. The professor came and sat with me she took me to my, to The dean.

The professor and the dean were like, let's get your dad on the phone. They put my dad on the phone, the three of them, intervention

Cate: wow.

Wezi: Like, okay, what what are we gonna do with this? The fact that you cannot speak 

Cate: Wow. 

Wezi: front of people. So I, was a, a physical reaction that I 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: to being seen and heard. and um, in a, for, in a formal place. And so, um, I had, I had to really work. I worked really hard on that. Like I, and to this day when I'm doing keynotes, like that is the most uncomfortable experience for me.

And so I have my, I have my me means and 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: through to be able to get up there and do what I, what I do. But I also am very grounded in knowing that I can, I can a positive impact when I do these things. So I hold 

Cate: That's what kind of drives you and pushes through it. Okay?

Wezi: 'cause it's like, it's the fear of like. Uh, what if, you know, it it like there's an 

Cate: Hmm,

Wezi: what if like, this isn't even gonna land or, or whatnot. And 

Cate: hmm,

Wezi: what if I'm not gonna be 

Cate: hmm. 

Wezi: What if

I'm not gonna be good enough? Um, and so I've had enough rehearsals in public speaking to 

Cate: That's fascinating.

Wezi: some truths that can be self-evident enough for me to work through the mental anguish of like, any, any thought that's coming to mind that speaks to worthiness.

Like got a place for that. And then whatever's driving my nerves spatially, got,

you know, I've got some, some tips 

Cate: Wow. 

Wezi: for that,

but I, I have to work very, very hard at it. Um, and so in speaking to like my journey in getting here, the where I, where I was headed and my profile here

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: I had a lot of struggles. Um, and even in the School of Education, as much as I was loving it, um, I got to that p to um, the practicum, I was getting, you know, the practice that I needed. Um, but before that, it was like the, the speaking was really, really difficult for me before I had the practical com experience. um, and then the last thing was you had to take an exam at

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: it

to get, you know, to, 

Cate: a teacher.

Wezi: to finalize your c certifications. And I was not a good test taker and I, failed the university test 

Cate: Oh my gosh. This story. Oh my gosh.

Wezi: I failed the test. Mind you, I had received so much validation up until that

point that I was going to be a good teacher I failed 

Cate: my God.

Wezi: I loved the course I was taking, I was internalizing things and I failed the test. And they said, you have a second opportunity to take it. I failed again 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: And

I was like, I'm not gonna be a teacher. Like, that's it. My chances are done. And I was crushed 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: And then I get an email, I get a phone call, and, um. There was a review board because one of the dean of students in the School of Education bought my case and was just like, there's no way we can let this person not become a 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: what are we gonna do? Um, and so when I say like, time and place, like this was a professor who intimidated me, and I didn't realize that she had even seen me 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: Like, you know, she was she was like, oh, of. Um, and I, I I only found out because I was asking, I was just like, wait, who did what? Like why? And then they said, and we spoke to your, I had a history professor, I was majoring in history and he had asked me to be part of a, a, board for curriculum globalization.

And I was like, why did he ask me? I barely even speak in that class. Um, and so like these were. Teachers, professors who had that, that thing where they were like, every student, student has something like what is, what is your thing? What is like, and I didn't realize it because I just was like in my own bubble of nerves thinking like, I cannot be seen and heard because I don't know if I'm going to say anything 

Cate: Oh my gosh. And they were seeing you the whole time they were seeing you.

Wezi: me, seeing

Cate: Wow. 

Wezi: and they thought that I had something important to 

Cate: My gosh.

Wezi: so um, so yeah, because of that advocacy, I became good teacher. And, 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: and so I became a teacher. And then, and here's the other thing, Cate. Um, when I say I wasn't very forthcoming, like that's, that's what I would go back and change if I could talk to younger Wezi. 

Cate: Hmm

Wezi: I'd be like,

you need to be comfortable in your voice and know what's good for you and speak to that and 

Cate: hmm.

Wezi: and, and to be, don't be afraid to share your preferences and your needs, um, because you can't just like, wait for things to happen around 

Cate: Even though they did, they did though.

Wezi: even though they did, even though they did, even though they did, because this is why, this is why these did end up 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: I was so afraid saying the wrong thing or like just, I didn't want 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: Never wanted the spotlight. Um, it didn't, it scared me, so I just said, you know what? I'm gonna do things that I'm very passionate about. And I am going to try to be the absolute best. gonna compete with Wezi. Like I wanna be the absolute best I could be at this thing that I have committed to. And that was teaching

these students. I was just like, I don't care what it takes, but every kid in my class is gonna have a success 

Cate: Mm-hmm. 

Wezi: story

And I had a little note on my desk of like a, quote about what I is in my control in this classroom to remind me, like if you've got an ego, like keep that in check. 

Cate: Right.

Wezi: Um, if you're, if you need to apologize to a student 'cause you made a mistake, you apologize to the student 'cause you 

Cate: Yep. 

Wezi: mistake

if you need to go call a parent because you didn't handle situations. So why you need to go, 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: But

also, like, I held myself to a very high standard and I held my students to a very high standard and I, and I wanted them to have the trust 

Cate: myself

Yeah.

Wezi: myself, if that made sense. So I, was very, very passionate about what I was doing. I was excited. Any opportunity to do PD or to learn or to, to improve. I was doing it. I was always a student when I was teaching. I was 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: And then, um, um, I remember doing one year I did, 

There was a professional development offering on the 

Cate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wezi: it was

like a five full days, over a couple months, the presenter announced that she was going to be stepping down from being a trainer.

I was like, I didn't even know that was a full-time job. I didn't think anything of it. And then one of my colleagues, two of my colleagues who were with me in that, by the way, who would ask me, they were just like, Hey, we're gonna be doing this pd. You wanna do it with us? I was like, sure. So I did it with them and um, and I was also getting my, um, TESOL certification at the same time because I was just like, I've got 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: in my

classroom.

I don't wanna, I, you know, I, I worked with English learners before, but I wanna certified

Cate: Amazing.

Wezi: that I can work with English learners and so, and 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: learners. So then they were just like, Hey, Wezi, you should consider that position. Since the trainers, was like, to me it was just like words in the cloud, in the sky, and, um, and then. Little did I know, I was asked to like, apply for this position and I became a trainer. And my, I was not a team lead, 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: I was not assigned to any committees to 

Cate: Just like plucked out of the classroom and said lead.

Wezi: like, it was like, it was, but again, I, that that was one of those situations where, you know, when I talked to my principal about it, like had seen me often, she was hands on. Um, the assistant principals were very hands-on. They'd seen me about it. and what I interviewed for it, and the director was a new director and she said, Hey, we're gonna be new together. And then she was just like, by the way, uh, you're the only person who's interviewed for this position. She was like, you're the only person who's interviewed for this position.

So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna repost it. Um. 

Cate: Wait, that doesn't mean you got it right away.

Wezi: the position. No, no, no. This was 

Cate: Oh, 

Wezi: the 

Cate: okay.

Wezi: This is what they're 

Cate: Okay. Oh my God.

Wezi: so we, we are reposting this interview, but this, uh, position. But if our interview goes well with you and you know, we, like, we see, we go in and visit and what do whatever they need to do.

They're just like, you got the job 

Cate: Oh my God. 

Wezi: And I was like,

Cate: What?

Wezi: what? But anyway, I became an instructional coach and I was just like, I gotta figure 

Cate: yeah, 

Wezi: gotta

figure 

Cate: yeah,

Wezi: out. Like, okay, now now I'm doing this coaching thing. 

Cate: there's not really a place to like figure it out, right? Like it's on the job.

Wezi: now. No, but I did have a really good 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: and she was somebody who, like, she and I are still very close friends to this day. She went out on maternity leave, decided to stay out for a while, got a new partner. She and I are still amazing

friends to this day. Like three of us actually just recently had lunch 

Cate: I love it.

Wezi: Um, this was years and years ago. And I just found, I found my pocket like

as an instructional coach and that was something I was just like, okay, if I'm gonna be an instructional coach and I'm gonna be facilitating and I'm gonna be standing up and delivering, I 

Cate: Yeah, 

Wezi: best I

could possibly be. So I was like, again, it was like that. like who are the people who I'm serving? And, and, And, who do I need to be for them and how can I work on that? And so my journey up until this point is constantly those stories. It's

like after after that. a I spent a lot of time working with the Title one schools. I was like, you know, I, I did some school principalships and one of the schools was just like, Hey, our, um, technology coach is leaving.

We really would like you. You know, we, we enjoy how you work with our staff, and blah, blah, blah, blah. blah, And at that time I was actually studying, uh, I was in grad school again for my EDS

and, um, this was gonna be, this was my second time in grad school. Um, and I was doing my, working on my third 

Cate: My gosh,

Wezi: and I taught my grad school, uh, uh, my dean, he was actually overseeing technology, in instructional tech in Fairfax County. so

I was just like, I didn't actually consider this for myself, so what are you gonna think? You know, and he really encouraged me into it. And so I was just like, oh, okay, And now I'm, now I'm in high school.

Being a tech coach in high school. Um, so, but the previous coaching job was actually an instructional facilitator position for the Office of English learners for the entire 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: So that's why I worked in a 

Cate: Got it.

Wezi: we were working on with Title three 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: that

programming. then I went into the instructional of education, the Office of Instructional Educational Technology, amazing leadership there. and um,

and then the principal at the school where I was working, he was, I, like I said, I've had lots of great leaders.

He was fantastic and he was super passionate to just make sure that, um, we meeting the needs of all these students, over 70% of them came from non-native English speaking homes

and we are serving this community. And so we were doing a lot of, culturally responsive work. And there then there was this, I. position that opened up to be a culturally responsive instruction facilitator. 

Cate: you got that?

Wezi: a call and I was asked, like, because we were 

Cate: Yeah. Yeah.

Wezi: um, there was like a, there was a, an in-house, um, like liaison position. So naturally, like I just took that on and then, and that, that's how I ended up working with the administration 

Cate: it.

Wezi: And then they were like, Hey, we've got a formal position that's opened up. you to have it. Got 

Cate: Wow,

Wezi: I went to that, um, to became a, an instructional position again for the district, but in the office of culturally 

Cate: that's amazing.

Wezi: was, we, we were working under equity and then specialist for that office or the, the, sorry, the supervisor for that office got a new job.

The specialist became the supervisor and she was just like, I want you to apply for the specialist 

Cate: Oh, stop that.

Wezi: But I, I did have my, I, I already had my admin credentials, like I've already been, I'd already been doing a lot of school leadership work up until that point. Um, and ended up doing that. And so 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: it's like,

Cate: many, 

Wezi: does 

Cate: like over how many years? Because it just,

Wezi: this is 

Cate: okay, so this is 15 years.

Wezi: Yeah, a 15. This is a year a DU journey before coming to Adobe and, 

um, 

Cate: come from that culturally responsive? The Office of Cultural, what did you call it? The Office of Cultural Responsive

Wezi: culturally responsive 

Cate: Responsive Instructor. Did you come from that to Adobe?

Wezi: came from Yes. And the way that I came from that to Adobe, it was a leap because I, um, okay. So when I became a tech 

Cate: Yeah,

Wezi: Again, I was like, oh my God, I'm a tech coach. I need to 

Cate: yeah,

Wezi: at this. I can possibly be because I haven't done this job before. I mean, I've been doing coaching, I know coaching and facilitation like that.

I can do my sleep these days. But it's the, the ed tech world has always been just like 

Cate: yeah. 

Wezi: I'm

not nothing, not 

Cate: Okay. Okay.

Wezi: of what I'm doing. So I was doing all the learning I could 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: own. district PD that we had, I was like sitting in 

Cate: Mm-hmm. 

Wezi: front,

row, the first full day PD that we had for all the district tech coaches in, uh, in our division. I sat in the front, they had a trainer come in to speak to us about HyperDocs 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: Google integration and. This trainer Oh, is also talking about Adobe Spark. 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: And so I'm sitting in there and the trainer, as they're doing their training, they're telling their 

Cate: huh.

Wezi: about how they came to this work and how um, they work with English learners. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: that's

been a, their focus and this is how they've been reaching their students. And I was so 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: I was just like, I need everything this person said is what my school could 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: um, because I want to support my school. So I stayed after.

and then, um, the specialist in that department said, Hey, I actually want you to, to meet with this person who came and did this training. So we connected and that person's name happened to be Tanya Berth, 

Cate: Oh my God. Of course.

Wezi: of course. And she and I 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: um, our leadership staff at the high school. While I was a tech 

Cate: Got it.

Wezi: fast forward a couple of years, and now I'm in central office

and she 

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Wezi: and um, and you know, we reconnect over it and neither of us had forgotten that 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: that we

had over the work because we were so in

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: in that work.

And so, 

Cate: that does not happen with everyone.

Wezi: like, doesn't happen with every, with everyone. Like what I was seeing in her, she was 

Cate: Mm.

Wezi: shared passion of like, how can we be better for our communities? You know,

like how can we leverage these tools that are now at our fingertips to do that?

Like, how can we people people to be excited about the learning experiences? so we like, we just. Connected after that. And so I came to work at Adobe. I applied to work. She was, she told me, Hey, you should apply to work at Adobe. So I did. Every person I interviewed with was just a, was like, I, I just felt like we were having, you know, like a dinner conversation

and I'd never met these people before.

It was easy. It was like we were so 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: about. And so when folks ask me, um, you know, like, how, what did you do 

Cate: Yep. 

Wezi: here? How did

you, I was just like, I, I say the same thing. I'm just like, literally, I've always been very passionate about the work that's been 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: about how I can do the best I can possibly do to serve the community directly in front of me.

And I, I've, I honestly had tunnel vision every time while I've been doing that because I'm just like, this the,

the, this, is my focus and. I want to take full advantage of this opportunity that I've been given. 

Cate: hmm.

Wezi: Um, and I want to, I want to serve, I do, I feel like a defining quality of a good leader is you make people around 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: So if people aren't coming around me and feeling better off for it, then like, I need to go be doing something else. So that's, that's, that's, that's been it. It's just like I, I just happened to be doing things that were, I mean, obviously there's a lot of intention in 

Cate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wezi: when I say happened, I. just like My passion was seen. The work that I was doing was seen, not because I was blasting it from the 

Cate: Right.

Wezi: but because I've been a collaborator, you know, I've always been working with teams and with other people, and like, how can I get this resource for 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: and, you know, how can, how can, what do I need to learn so that I can bring it back and help improve the conditions of this community?

And so like, you have to 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: and you

have to network, and you have to connect with people. And so that's just kind of been it. that's, that's that's been my mo Um, 

Cate: though it didn't always,

Wezi: got me visibility 

Cate: didn't always come easy. I mean, that, that part of your story is not to be forgotten. Like your intentionality, your work on that, like you say, tunnel vision, but my god, laser tunnel vision, I mean, It's so inspiring. And I, I think about like, I mean, again, going back to like what this is, even what we're even trying to do with, with the podcast and with these stories, it's like, one, it's to make sure that teachers that feel alone, remember they're not right.

Like, and I think so much of what you shared is so, can it, it can help other people feel that feel less alone or like, yeah, like I, I had a hard time. I have, I could never even imagine like, standing up in front of people. It's like, well, neither could Wezi and like, look what happened when she did, you know, like, look, and that there's, you know, that, that there's a place for us and there's a place for our passions.

But what rings true the most is that you, you have been living your passion unapologetically and bravely and that. I can feel it through this computer screen, and I've been lucky enough to spend time with you in real life and I feel it. And so to know all that came to this point is so, it's incredible.

And to

Wezi: Well, thank you Cate. And I really do appreciate that because, you know, I, it's not always easy, to be doing work and not feel like what, like to not know 

Cate: totally.

Wezi: or what's going to

be next, or to have that un uncertainty. so me, I have, you know, just I have failed a lot I haven't been 

Cate: Mm-hmm.

Wezi: call it or name it 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: 'cause that to me it's always been like, this is part 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: right? Like this. Failing that exit exam was not, not a small fail. Like that's a that's a pretty significant fail. But I remember also like piloting in brand new approach to 

Cate: yeah,

Wezi: in high school where I was working. And it was a complete flop, like launching that thing the first time. And that was the first time I'd experienced like operational, trying to something

Cate: huh.

Wezi: that just didn't land at all that I had like creative freedom over. and then I had to like go back to the drawing boards and just like. This isn't bringing folks to the table. And it's too complicated, I

think, and like, what is going on here? And I like, it was a very uncomfortable conversation to sit with my principal who trusted me. And I was just like, yeah, you know, that, remember that thing you trusted me with?

Like, that didn't go so well. 

Cate: Hmm. 

Wezi: So and then the question of any great leader is just like, so 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: do? 

Cate: So what's next? Yeah.

Wezi: so so what's next? So, so like, so how are we gonna use that as an 

Cate: I love that.

Wezi: what good leadership 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: just like,

okay, it's all, it's another data point 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: to help you improve. so that's, I think that's also put me in a position I

I don't ever feel like I really need to. 

Cate: right

Wezi: It's just 'cause I know that if things don't go well, I can name it and I can speak to it. Nobody's gonna be harder on it 

Cate: then you will be, yeah,

Wezi: Like, so yeah. So it's just like, and I'm focusing on the value of the work that I'm doing rather than like the actual things, you

know?

If that 

Cate: totally makes sense.

Wezi: yeah. And I, I think that's just always served me really well is um,

is to just have a value centered approach

because that's another centered, that's like, it's a service centered approach to the work

that I'm doing. And that's why I am passionate about it. And I once read an article, um, just before I started my teaching career, that resonated with me

and it was calling out, um. A generational perception for millennials at the time that was saying. I think a lot of us have been conditioned to think that if you're not passionate about something, it's not for you. And I, it can lead us to abandon work that we are doing that can actually become a really amazing gift and something that we can be passionate about. it's

like, 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: it, the, op-ed um, the op-ed was pretty much saying like, sometimes you have to give your passion and opportunity to 

Cate: Oh yeah.

Wezi: can sometimes just follow competencies that you're 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: Like as a result of me feeling more competent in this thing. I've become more 

Cate: about it,

Wezi: about it.

And that's been my experience.

Like I wasn't. Immediately passionate about education technology. Like 

Cate: Yeah,

Wezi: like a thought of mine, but as I realized like, hey, I have com combined competencies that are making this really meaningful for me. Like my coaching background, my facilitation background, my teaching background, um, my expertise here, my expertise here, the fact that I 

Cate: yeah. 

Wezi: this,

and I, and I had to do this to like 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: this And now I am like the fact that the growth that I'm seeing is making me increasingly passionate about this field

Cate: yeah,

Wezi: and I'm gonna bring that to whatever it is I'm doing. So when I, you know, every work that I was doing, I'm always bringing that to the next thing.

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: Um, and so it's not like I was just like, Hey, this is something I'm, I'm passionate about it and therefore I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna stick my claim in it.

It's like sometimes, like, I didn't feel very passionate 

Cate: Right.

Wezi: it's, it's, to me it's like, you know, those, those, the skills and the growth that you get, as a result of committing 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: that Yes.

Cate: It's this idea like you can't rush passion. And I think that's a challenging thought for me. Like I That's what I'm hearing you say. And like, I think you're right. I think the assumption is if you're passionate about it, it, it's also like the assumption that passion is positive.

Maybe passion isn't always positive, right? Like maybe passion, a passion is challenging maybe. And it's through those, all those ups and downs, the jungle gym of your passion that you end up feeling like deepening your commitment to it. I hadn't thought about that before, but I think you're, I think you're really right and like.

Like failing and persevering through that failure and doubling down on it and getting it right makes me more committed, hence makes me more passionate about it. That's

Wezi: Yes. Because

it's, 

like, 

you know, it's almost like it's that 

dopamine after you're curious about something and you've experienced a challenge for it, and then 

Cate: Mm.

Wezi: it. Um, and that just gives you like, you know, this sense of I can, I can do what

Cate: I can do hard things. 

Wezi: Right. 

Cate: is actually my family motto. Tolnai's do hard things, 

Wezi: Oh, yeah. Oh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's, and one, so one of the, um. 

Cate: Mm-hmm. 

Wezi: Outcomes of the Interve. I 

Cate: Yeah. Yeah.

Wezi: that I got in college for public speaking was, I remember, um, the conversation turning to, you do realize that everybody gets nervous. Like we all get nervous.

And my dad was just like, yeah. It's just like, how are you going to choose to deal with those nerves 

Cate: Hmm. 

Wezi: and how do you want other people to see 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: And so I was just like, I didn't realize I had any 

Cate: God. That's empowering though.

Wezi: yeah. So, and then he told me this story about seeing a world leader once, just like by happenstance.

And he, at the time he was working at the World Bank, so they had this forum and runs into this world leader who was coming outta the bathroom and they just said. I just always throw up before I have to speak. it took 

Cate: Wow. 

Wezi: him so off guard. 'cause he is just like, this person speaks all the 

Cate: Wow.

Wezi: time. And they're like, it's that like this is how we see them and they get that 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: Um, and so, and he told me that. And so I was just like, okay, have control over the way that I can show 

Cate: Hmm. 

Wezi: nerves. So I started to kind of see them as 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: they telling me? They're telling me that I think what I'm doing is really, really important. 

Cate: Oh gosh.

Wezi: And they're also telling me that I am, I am human and that I make mistakes 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: And that they're also telling me that I feel I'm a feeler 

Cate: Yeah,

Wezi: But that's also a connecting human 

Cate: right.

Wezi: Like that's how, that's how we connect to people when we speak. and so. I was, so now, now I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna share with you what my, my public 

Cate: I wanna hear it right now.

Wezi: I call them tips, but like, these are like really, like my, my public speaking 

Cate: Okay.

Wezi: savers for Wezi. This is what I do. Will, if I'm going on stage and I am speaking to an audience, I will always have pockets because if I, my hands start to shake. I want to be able to put them in 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: the pockets, and I want to look relaxed, even though I am like the duck 

Cate: Hmm mm-hmm. 

Wezi: the, 

Cate: Feet going crazy underwater.

Wezi: actually, it actually does, like when you put, if you put your hands in your pocket and you just walk around, it actually does make 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: bit more relaxed. So I always wear trousers with pockets in them. I always wear dark clothes because I'm probably gonna sweat 

Cate: Yep, 

Wezi: extra nervous. So I don't have to worry about like anybody seeing me sweat or like my clothes looking off, because I'll be like, eh, that's one less thing 

Cate: yep,

Wezi: for me to think about and to be self-conscious about.

'cause I, the, the thing that I don't want to be up there is 

Cate: Yeah. Yeah.

Wezi: So I'm removing the things that are gonna make me self-conscious. It's like people seeing my hands, like people see me sweat. What? And then there's the, um, the actual content, what it is that 

Cate: Yep.

Wezi: delivering. I have to feel connected to it.

So I cannot, and I realized like when that last time that I ran out, I cannot read off of the, even if I wrote this, which I always do. It's like I've written this, my presentation, I get in my own head and I cannot read the words in this. So I in, I don't memorize, I internalize because I'm terrible at memorizing things.

My recall isn't that great. So I have these, like the devices for myself where I'm just like, I want to deliver the message. What is the message, what I'm saying, and what is going to cue me into the 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: of that message as I deliver it. So I'll just have like, just like little words or, or bullet points or like I'll come up with a connection between something that will 

Cate: Do you put that on the slide or where do you 

Wezi: I put no, I put it on 

Cate: Uhhuh? 

Wezi: note card for my, for myself. Um, I'll have it a note card up, but I 

Cate: sure. It's like making it is enough.

Wezi: I'm like, because, and then I do a lot of visualizing to prepare. To prepare. So I'll visualize delivering this message. And then I also accept the fact that I'm not going to say everything that I want to say. I'm going to miss points that I had planned on saying, like, I just accept that off the bat. Like, okay, but if you miss a point, which is the point that you really don't wanna miss, you know, kind of thing. So I had this conversation with myself ahead of time, and even with all of that, I am still a nervous wreck 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: before these like big keynotes.

Like my colleague will tell you, he came up to me and he just had to be like, wait, I'm looking at my notes. And he's just like, if you don't have it now, you Don't have it. Like, relax, chill out.

Cate: Don't tell me to relax.

Wezi: um, and it's like, and it, but at that point, like, I

Cate: Okay?

Wezi: really do need to like chill. Um, so like you, like I'm Okay?

with somebody telling me to relax before I have to go on stage because I, I do need to relax

Cate: Take a breath.

Wezi: really do need it. I need to Take a breath.

But I say that to say that this is something that's always going 

Cate: Yeah.

Wezi: me. And so I also, I understand my limitations and I work with my 

Cate: Hmm.

Wezi: and I have also improved through that. Like, uh, as a result of that, because like what's holding me back is me just being rooted in the idea that this is all about me and it's not 

Cate: Yeah, yeah,

Wezi: So I have to like, you know, take that part out, out of it. It's just like, yeah,

I might be up here telling, sharing my story, but why? Like, why did I, what, why were you 

Cate: yeah.

Wezi: that? It's because the people in front of you are seeking something, um, that's beyond you. And so you are just like a vessel 

Cate: Ooh, that's a very powerful image. Ooh, that's very helpful. My sister once told me, I really appreciate this, even though it sounds harsh. She says, people don't think about you half as much as you think they do. And I'm like, that is actually so helpful for me.

Wezi: Yeah. Yeah. Especially when we're just like, oh my 

Cate: Right. 

Wezi: do they hate me? Um, 

Cate: They hate their emails. They hate their emails. Like they don't hate you.

Wezi: they hate the emails. They hate the emails. So this is actually something that I appreciate about, um, you.

know, like recall or things or when I'm, when I am in an intense situation, if I say or do something embarrassing, I'm probably not going to remember 

Cate: Yeah. 

Wezi: it after a couple weeks.

So 

Cate: Silver lining.

Wezi: my body's gonna remember the nerves, but I'm just say, eh, it's okay. I won't be embarrassed about 

Cate: Oh God. Wezi, you are the best. I can't even, I feel so lucky to have had like an hour to hang out with you and hear, like, just get to know you and like, thanks for sharing. Like you, you like laid it out, girl. You laid it out. 

Wezi: Well, you 

Cate: Oh.

Wezi: and I, don't get to do this often, obviously, so please excuse 

Cate: No. No,

Wezi: but I, I thank you for having me and for allowing me to share some of my story and hopefully

Cate: it,

Wezi: I don't know, it, 

Cate: I think so. I mean, it's, it's humanizing and I think the, the thing about your job Wezi, and I got to see you in action even just yesterday, is that you, you're, you might hate the spotlight, but you're in it a lot. And, you do it so gracefully and, and so to hear, like even just you sharing your little tips, I'm like, it's just so humanizing.

And it's a good reminder that like, at the end of the day, whether you're in the classroom or at a conference or on a call with 300 people watching you, like you are still Wezi. The teacher who says challenge accepted, and like, you're gonna show up and you're going to slay, and the only person that's going to judge you is probably you, and you're wonderful.

So I thank you so much, my friend.

Wezi: Thank you Cate, and I look forward to just listening to 

Cate: Oh yeah, 

the other 

Wezi: sessions that you've had. There's so much inspiration out there 

Cate: yeah,

Wezi: kind of look up and find it and, um, I just appreciate you hosting these platforms 

Cate: totally. 

Wezi: to do that 

Cate: Yep. All right, well we'll put everything in the show notes, my friend. Thank you. Thank you.