🎙️ Ep. 16: Don't Forget to Have Fun with Corey and An

What This Episode is About

In this episode of The Bridge, Cate reconnects with longtime friends and former colleagues Corey Mathias and An Wren, two educators whose journey from instructional technology coaches (TOSAs) back to the classroom offers a powerful reflection on growth, change, and purpose. Together, they revisit the early days of edtech integration, from rolling out the first Chromebooks to supporting teachers through the chaos of remote learning. Now back in the classroom, both share how it feels to start over while holding onto the lessons learned from years of innovation and leadership. Their conversation is full of laughter, honesty, and reminders that teaching is about joy, connection, and community. At its heart, this episode is a celebration of mentorship, friendship, and finding meaning in every new chapter of an educator’s journey.

Meet Our Guests

Corey Mathias teaches fourth grade at a Title I school, where he helps his students grow as readers, writers, and thinkers. Before returning to the classroom, Corey served as an Instructional Technology TOSA, supporting teachers with digital tools and innovation. He’s passionate about making learning meaningful and accessible for all students, especially English learners, and he enjoys connecting with other educators to share ideas and strategies.

🔗 Corey on X/Twitter

Hue-An Wren is a 5th grade teacher at Patton Elementary in Southern California. Prior to that she was an Instructional Technology TOSA for 10 years. She belongs to a number of edtech communities, including Google Certified Innovator, Adobe Creative Innovator, and Book Creator Ambassador. Hue-An earned her doctorate in Learning Technologies from Pepperdine University with her research focusing on writing strategies in the digital space.

🔗 An on Instagram

🔗 An on LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

• Returning to the classroom after years in instructional tech feels like being a first-year teacher again—but with deeper wisdom, stronger boundaries, and renewed purpose.
• Corey and An recall leading Garden Grove Unified through the early days of edtech adoption, from the first Chromebooks and Google domains to navigating the chaos of COVID and one-to-one rollouts.
• Don’t let tech drive the lesson—use it purposefully. If it enhances engagement and learning, keep it. If it adds friction, ditch it. And above all, keep the fun and connection alive.
• Mentorship and belonging. Corey and An’s friendship—rooted in humor, honesty, and shared growth—reminds us that relationships are the bridge that carry educators through change, uncertainty, and renewal.

Transcript

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my gosh. okay. Corey and An, thank you so much for being on The Bridge. I have known you guys and not as long as Corey, but I've known of you for a really long time through wonderful humans. I think the thread that connects all of us is just that we are connected educators, we vibe on ed tech. But I wanted to have you both on because, Corey, your story was so crucial to, the formation of the bridge and so much of what you've experienced over the last couple years.

Truth out

Corey: Feels so special.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): know. we should. So I, do, I think about your story a lot and so we'll get to that. But before that, can you just like. Tell us who you are, like besides your bios. 'cause we'll have that, like who you guys are, how you know each other go.

Corey: I will let An go first. She was, the first TOSA.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.

An Wren: I was the first TOSA. I'm An. I am a, I want to say 22 year. Teacher educator.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): it.

An Wren: Am I 22? I forget there. I've had 2004.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): so you're 22 'cause I'm 23. Good job

An Wren: Yeah. So 22. 22 year. I always say I'm a veteran first year teacher

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I love it.

An Wren: because this feels like being a first year teacher. It really does feel like a, being a first year teacher.

So I say that. but I guess I go through eras, like all cool people do, and. I had, a classroom teacher era when I was, when I had just started. And I started in a school in a different area from I where I'm at now. And then I went into, instructional tech for 10 years and then I left that to go back to the classroom for a multitude of reasons.

And now I'm here teaching fifth grade gate.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow here

Corey: Witness.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): California.

An Wren: Southern California large, very large urban school district. very large urban school. The, this is the largest school in our, largest elementary school in our district.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): How?

An Wren: And because we are a gate magnet school,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): ah,

An Wren: it's even larger because we, bus in a lot of the students who qualify for GATE from other schools who'd like to be in a magnet class.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's really cool. I didn't know that.

An Wren: Yeah, it, really is neat because, my children are also, my personal children are also gate and to have the ability to be with other people, GATE learners are so special. They have special ways of looking at things and they're, each and every one of them is unique. And to be in a classroom of others who are like you, who are unique, who look things and that, that.

Individuality is celebrated. It's really, it is really special to be in a class like that. So I'm glad that there are these types of opportunities for our kids.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Love it. Love it. And how do you know, Corey? Where did, your, Corey story come jump into your

An Wren: So

Cate Tolnai (she/her): years? You like that hashtag Corey

An Wren: I, let me tell, and I say this all the time, you be careful with the signs you're throwing there, buddy.

so Corey, when I became a tosa, it was just me and one other colleague and he was a seven 12 version. So our district is K 12. So I came in and I had the K six lens. I had the elementary, 'cause my, background was in elementary education, so I came in with the elementary background and I had a partner who was seven 12 and there was only two of us and we supported 65 schools.

back then it was. Like Google was brand new. everything was brand new. We were still trying to figure things out. So we didn't really do a lot other than the here's your laptop teachers and like we weren't one-to-one. None of that was happening. So it was me and another tosa. And so we had these monthly meetings and in order to have to, facilitate a monthly meeting, we had presenters who were teacher leaders.

Corey was one of those teacher leaders. Oh, I'm echoing. Is that me?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): It's me. unplugged.

An Wren: it.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): you're good. Hold

An Wren: Okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay. I think we're good. Yeah, no. Yeah. Testing one,

An Wren: one, two,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): wait. Yeah. Is that better? Is it gone now?

An Wren: testing.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah. Okay.

An Wren: it's gone now.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay. Okay,

An Wren: so Corey was one of my teacher leaders and that first year I was like, I actually saw, and I, Corey, I think I told you this, I don't know if you remember,

Corey: I remember.

An Wren: came up to him and I saw a picture of his daughter on his, laptop as the screen. And I told him, and I'm so sneaky like this, I told him, Hey Corey.

just to let you know, this job is really conducive to raising a family and I, think that sealed the deal for him.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

An Wren: he applied and he was so we all, me and my boss and my colleague had, and he was my first choice. I wanted Corey,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): love

An Wren: anybody else?

Corey: sorry, An, if I was your first choice,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): it.

Corey: but

An Wren: I knew, what he brought to the table and I wanted Corey. I didn't want anyone else 'cause other people applied.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Uhhuh.

An Wren: But I told my, boss, I said, if we can only hire one, this is the one that we should hire. And that what he brings to the table. And it was cool. He, agreed and then hired two other people as well.

Corey: it just

Cate Tolnai (she/her): guys went from two

Corey: feels so special.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): plus Corey plus two more. So you had five at that point.

An Wren: Yes. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): year?

An Wren: we actually lost one and so we ended up with four.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): And this

An Wren: Yeah. 2005,

Corey: it's

An Wren: no, sorry. 15 2015. 2015, yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay. 2015,

An Wren: When was,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): wow.

An Wren: yeah, 2015.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.

Corey: Yeah. Addie was born 2014, so

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Aw, baby. An, I love how much you paid attention to, like something as simple as like screen saver, which is the baby, which is actually like the core of someone's. Hopefully with someone's identity and like what a smart play there. I see you girl. you.

An Wren: Oh, you have no idea.

Corey: So now dog. Now, just that tells you where things are right now.

An Wren: Only because Addie was like, no, dad, you can't have a picture of me like that.

Corey: my kid, my, my kids aren't as cute as my dog anymore, so my dog is now my, phone screensaver.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): catching that? Okay, got

Corey: I hope so. but yeah, as An said, I just started off, using technology in my classroom and I, the, really like first exposure, not exposure, but the first thing I jumped into, was donors choose.

Had Chromebooks, like before Chromebooks were a thing and they're like, Hey, for a hundred bucks if you can get parents or if you can get, community to pitch in, you can get a Chromebook for a hundred bucks. And I'm like, all right, device for my classroom. So I ended up with or 10 of them.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.

Corey: then I took them to it and was like, can you guys connect these to the internet? and they looked at it and were like, I don't even know what this thing is. so this was like the very infancy of that. they were able to figure it out, thankfully. 'cause I didn't have, family members spend out to shop money that wasn't useful.

That would just be like paper weights. and my claim to fame in the district, 'cause I had the first Chromebooks in the district.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.

Corey: I ran my own like Google,

An Wren: Domain.

Corey: domain for it too. So I had everything with it. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): feel

Corey: So

Cate Tolnai (she/her): and getting your own domain?

Corey: think they knew about that part. my principal knew about it and I talked to her.

I said, Hey, I've got, in order to use these, I've gotta do this. I didn't know this going in. Like I just got these, I'm like, Hey, it's devices. These will connect to the internet. We can do stuff. And then I get it and I'm like, Google Docs. What is that? I don't know what all this stuff is. Drive. this was pre classroom. this was infancy where basically students were like sharing docs and it was a mess. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): my

Corey: But like we were able to get in, because otherwise the technology we had on campus was one MacBook cart that was rolled around from class to class, and there were about three teachers who used that at any given time.

So we had to sign that out, move it around, and I was like, these are devices that can stay in my classroom. was excited about that. and so I started doing the presentations and An's come join us. I went over to the dark side, and was there, and, honestly, the biggest thing about the to position was convenience. I loved the convenience, like having raising kids. Like I get a phone call, Hey, kid's sick. All right, I can like just leave what I'm doing and go pick my kid up. or like I could take an hour off as needed. just the flexibility that was there was, huge and, my daughter's still mad at me to this day that I am not in that position anymore.

Even though that position no longer exists, I am still expected to be in that position so I can pick her up at any. the moment's notice. So she's, she doesn't live that one. Lemme live that one down. She's, mad at me for that. but yeah, I'm in my 21st year teaching now, that is my era. and I actually, I know we are, we're veterans, grizzles veterans. I actually used to teach at the same school An's at now, as a gen ed teacher. There. yeah, tho those gate clusters, did try and, connect those kids with the gen ed and the, gate clusters as much as possible. But they speak another language. They have own language and it's great that they can get together and, talk to each other. yeah, so th this is the school I'm at now is much different. So that was a big transition. I have to teach ELD now, which I didn't have to do before. 'cause. I, didn't have students that needed it. so that's

An Wren: Good thing you got all that training in the TOSA office, right?

Corey: Oh yeah. so much.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Sounds like your, 

Corey: This is a video podcast, right?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes. It's oh, I forgot I was saying,

Corey: I need my mug, An,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): So wait, so pick up from, the point of, okay, so now we know you're not TOSA ing, you're both in the

Corey: not TOSAsting anymore.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): When you all were, when, An, took the sword you as, tosa, what did that, what was it like when y'all were working together and take, me from 65 schools and. to says to now Corey, you're like, actually we are gonna have devices in classrooms. what? What happened with resources?

An Wren: So I think for us it was, yeah, I think, they started to grow and so Title one came in and so the east side of our district got a lot of stuff and we were getting money for that, but it really hit when COVID hit and all the, ESSER funds came in. Everyone, some schools got two to one devices.

everyone got a lot of money for devices and so there was a lot of purchasing happening and there was a lot of, ed tech exploration. Like I know this sounds really like when COD hit and everyone was like. We can do this virtually. there's this other way, like there were applications that we had been talking about for years and people were like, wait, what?

Now? They wanted to hear from us. 

Corey: about this?

An Wren: It's like the PORTS, it's like the PORTS program, right? 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my gosh.

An Wren: Corey is known in our little tech group, like someone discovered PORTS maybe two years ago, and Corey had been presenting on PORTS to our district for, I don't know, five years, six years now. And he actually brought them in one time and we were like, you guys should check this out.

And then the people were like, why didn't you guys tell us about PORTS? And we were like,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): God.

An Wren: like

Cate Tolnai (she/her): dare

An Wren: same thing with Adobe. Adobe came out.

Corey: I've

An Wren: Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, it's, so I think that's what happened with COVID. Like all of the money came in and then now people were like, COVID hit and the kids came back so different and they needed personalized instruction.

They needed differentiation, they needed engagement, they needed relevant content and relevant activities, and that's ed tech, like that spoke right to them. And I think that's why we really had a good time.

Corey: Prior to COVID. EdTech was optional, and so everything we would show would be like, Hey, this is cool. If you don't like it, that's okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): right.

Corey: But I think it's cool. Some people think it's cool. Here's what you can do with it. Where when we went strictly online, now it's you have to do this like Google Classroom, Like these were like non-negotiables that you had to be putting stuff in there. Teachers were using it, students were using it, and there were students, or there were teachers who just rolled right into it. They, had the, processes set up. They had everything ready. it was pretty seamless for some of them. Not that it was an easy transition, but they had built routines in there. And then there were other teachers who were just like,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.

Corey: how do I turn my computer on? And so we had to that the, craziest day, I still remember the, Monday after Friday, the 13th was like, Hey, you're gonna present on Zoom, how to use Zoom. I've never used Zoom before. I've never, I've never created Zoom. I've, logged into a few, it was like, yeah, you're gonna president to all the admin in the district, how to use Zoom, and you have about two hours go. and now it's the thing too, it's like of, of osis we had is we, like to, as Cosmo says, push all the buttons, right?

You're not gonna break it, just push all the buttons. because you're gonna, you're gonna find some magic in there. and I don't even know where I was going with this anymore, but yeah, it's that necessity,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's what you're,

Corey: for tech was huge. I think. I don't know.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): no, That it was optional and now it wasn't, and then all of a sudden your

like exponentially more valued.

Corey: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): You would Well.

Corey: Because the people who came to us before, yeah.

who came to us for were people who wanted to learn about tech,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Uhhuh.

Corey: The pre COVID, they were interested, they were self-motivated to be there. Versus of the group who was coming along during COID was not always happy to, be there.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): So you said something that like totally made this Aha. Made me go. Aha. Which is people. There were some people that had these routines set, and so the transition wasn't miraculous and wasn't immediate, but it was smoother. 

Corey: Her.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Versus the people that were for that. My gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. The teachers that hadn't done that transition face to face and were trying to do all that goes into getting your students to feel comfortable navigating in an online system and you're self comfortable.

'cause how many times have we screwed up when I was like, oh my God. Yeah, sorry. I didn't do the share settings properly. Or oh, didn't, actually the PDF. You need my bad, but like they're in front of me and I can fix that and. my gosh. That expl, I just hadn't thought about that.

Corey: I am notorious for getting, I'll do, I'll get my presentation already and put my Bitly up there and people are like, can you share it? I can't get in. ah,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh gosh.

Corey: extra step just kills me.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Come on Google, listen up here, let's go. okay, so post COVID. Oh, and this is the other thing that you guys made me think of is this idea that Since everybody now doesn't have the option to not have the tech in place and not use it, then they must all be using it and Right.

They're all using it perfectly Great seamlessly. Everything's great your world. No.

An Wren: Oh yeah, it is great in my world, just in my world, in my little world right here, this world

Cate Tolnai (she/her): So what are you, what does it look like from your perspective on school campuses right now? And did people continue that tech integration or not?

An Wren: So in my, at my school, I am seeing, I'm new here, so I still feel like I am learning what everyone's doing. I'm still, the school is so big, there's so many teachers here. but what I am seeing, and I'm hoping that maybe I'm seeing this because I keep saying it is purposeful use of tech.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.

An Wren: You know how like sometimes I, people will use tech just because it's fun and it's different and it's new, but I am seeing a lot of people like, tell me how to use that.

If I can get up and running real quick, I'm happy to try it. let's, but if it takes me too long to get logged in, if it takes the kids too long to get logged in, if it's buggy, if it's glitchy, I'm not doing it. And I love that. I love that. and that, that suits ed tech. That's how ed tech should be, If it improves your practice and it improves their learning outcomes, that's what you should be using. If it makes it more difficult for you to get in, then no, you should not be using it abandoned, just abort and go get, post-its like. It is one of those things where I see that a lot. I see. It's not worth me trying to get in.

I, it, I have a good lesson. It's working for me. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

An Wren: when I do introduce something fun and new and interesting, the AI that you brought to our district, I'm seeing that all over our district.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wait,

An Wren: the, yes. The one you did the, you brought Adobe.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh yeah.

An Wren: brought Adobe, the AI portrait.

It's a, it's the portrait, that activity with the words. I see it all over the district. All over the district. And that's the stuff so that if you, and, but like when you walk into a classroom, you know who attended that training, right? Because it's a very impressive thing to put up. And, so I see that for those people that the, fourth, the, path of resistance wasn't hard.

It, wasn't there. there was no resistance. So they loved it and they, went all in and that's the tech that stays, So it's really neat to see. That purpose and that, and we've always wanted that. That's all we always wanted. We always said, if it works for you and makes your teaching better and makes it better for the kids, do it.

If not, abandon, because not all tech works the same way for all of us.

Corey: One of the big boundaries too, that teachers have is not knowing everything about it.

An Wren: Yeah.

Corey: the things like too, you're not gonna know everything in a tool. I usually just give my kids like the bare basics and let them run with it and let them like share with each other what they learned. But a lot of teachers like. Have a hard time with that control side. They're like, I don't know what they're gonna do. I don't know exactly how to do this if we're running into a problem. I think that's one of the, barriers I see is, like the what ifs,

with it. And so the more what ifs that are in there. It, I, a less likely chance of someone it out where

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

Corey: let the kids become the experts on certain things. like Adobe Express, here's the basics, here's what you do. And then they're like, Hey, look what I did. I'm like, all right, go show the class. what did you do? so like, you're not gonna figure everything out.

You can't know everything about. So the more we can give kids the power and give them the buy-in and the control, the more beneficial I think it's gonna be for everybody.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): No, that's so true. And I, think too, if you, the more often we give teachers those opportunities to be in control of their own learning, the better too. Which leads you to my next question, which is, so it's, it does sound like people. Like other educators have, like they got access to these resources, the students have access to the tools, the actual physical hardware, and it sounds like things are in a really good place.

I also know your school district Garden Grove Unified is they, you guys are doing some really great stuff, that not every school district is, and so I

Corey: really?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes

Corey: News?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): are. Yeah. Hello. Yes. From somebody who sees a lot of school districts across the state, there's good stuff happening there. yet you're surprised.

Why are you surprised by that?

An Wren: I'll start, I'll save you from yourself, Corey. So I.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): back chAnling over there?

An Wren: We, no, I just know, I know he and I are thinking the same. we are of the same mind. Let me tell you. so I, I see a lot of districts too. I teach at Cal State Fullerton and so I see a lot of districts and I hear, a lot of things that, I hear a lot of things.

One of the things our district does really, well is pd.

support our teachers very well. So we have PTs upon PTs, not Tets, for, God forbid, but other PTs there, there's lots of them. And so we do support our teachers. We do have PD on

Corey: Paid

An Wren: or

Yes. Optional. And it's paid. That's true. Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): true. Wow.

An Wren: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): It's kinda a big deal.

An Wren: Yeah. So there, there are, I think some of the things that, that make it hard for us. one, they got rid of the instructional tech department, like the theosis. We have no more our job.

Our job. 

Corey: exist.

An Wren: no, we left before that happened.

Corey: We,

An Wren: We left before that happened. I.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): No.

An Wren: I didn't, I, it was time for me to go, for Corey.

I told him, I was like, you dude, you're good luck doing this without me. And Corey was like, yeah, that's probably not gonna work. I think I was the only one in our district that really I, with. With my vision and what I envisioned our district to be. When I took that job as a tosa, I had hopes and a vision for our district and where we were gonna go and what we were gonna do.

And I spent 10 years, we both spent 10 years working on that. And I do think we, we move the needle. I really do. I think we have a lot of people. 'cause when we left there was a void. I know people were like, I got messages during super week. Where are you? what happened? Where did you go? And, They were like, we can't go to meetings anymore 'cause you're not there.

And the trainings don't make sense. And so I know we did, we had an impact, but I think right now the focus is on things that we wouldn't necessarily choose as a focus for our district. our district went one to one, two to one. Did you hand out your Chromebooks already, Corey? We are two to one now.

Corey: oh yeah. Anybody that wants a Chromebook can help, can have it.

An Wren: Yeah. So our district.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Chromebooks to every

An Wren: Two devices to every single student. Any student that wants a device can have it. They can check it out, and they'll keep it for the duration of their enrollment in that school. So if a third grader takes it, they keep that same Chromebook at home all the way up through sixth grade, and then they return it and go to.

They're intermediate school and they can get one there. So it is a phenomenal way, a step towards, equity and access for our kids, right? Especially for so many families that do need that device. However, When that was rolled out, we didn't talk about, digital safety. We didn't talk about access to wifi.

We didn't talk about, media literacy. We didn't talk about, like we didn't support the teachers on if you were to give homework with these devices, what would you do? Like, how could you teach? So I think it was the cart before the horse kind of a situation. So while we do have so many wonderful things going on.

Corey: I don't even know if there was a horse. There was a cart. The cart went home.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Maybe like a little

Little pony.

An Wren: yeah, so I think that's where, I think that's where we.

Corey: I, think, we wanted, we have this vision of like systemic change, right? We made an impact. We had a lot of teachers who changed the way they did what they did. but it's pockets, right? So you have it, and when you're talking about equity and everything, you have the haves and have nots.

Like you have teachers who teach digital citizenship, who teach digital skills, who teach these things. And then you have other teachers who it's like. No one taught me how to do that. and so this, if you came to those optional paid PDs, you got the message, but it was only those groups who wanted it, who were the ones that we saw that change coming from.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): and the ones that wanted it slash could come to it because if you happen to

Corey: Right?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): that needs to pick up your kid or has a second job, 'cause they tutor after school to make up for not making

Corey: true.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): it, right? that's the equity piece goes, does bleed into pd. But to your point, it does.

It does create a different like opportunity for extension, which. seems to have made a really big difference. Maybe. 

An Wren: It's our district is so big.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): big. I had no

An Wren: It, 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): 65 schools.

An Wren: is huge. It is really big. And being K 12, we are preschool through adult learners. and we were helping. Teachers that were in the preschool, the state preschool program, we were helping teachers in our adult learning, campuses. And so we were, huge when we were working on all of these different, points in our district.

And I think, not that we didn't have enough time, but we didn't have enough manpower.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): You

An Wren: if we did, I think it, yeah, exactly.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hey

An Wren: We like, even if we did. It was, so hard to find people who saw things the way we did. Everyone thought one of two things that EdTech was, fixing your printer, getting network stuff done.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yep.

An Wren: Or they thought ed tech was, teaching coding and robotics.

they didn't understand. And so for us to be good ptosis and I, firmly stand behind this, if you are instructional tech, you or ed tech, you should be able to know good lesson design. And know how to infuse technology into that lesson.

It's not your, it's easy for you to find buttons and push the buttons and know how to troubleshoot. That is not what ed tech is about. Ed tech is about teaching better with technology. so that's why it was so hard for us to get out there because very few people heard that and understood that, whereas they thought, oh, they're, just doing fun stuff and that's not really what it is.

It's not ever what it was.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): It's almost the key that unlocks so much more. what has your guys' relationship to, for like your relationship with each other, how has that evolved over the course of these years where you went from not really knowing each other to actually knowing each other really well? Seeing each other every day, probably driving in cars to school sites together to now you're totally different school sites and you're back in the classroom.

So what does the relationship look like now?

An Wren: I text him all the time, and he does not respond ever like all the time,

Corey: a, I am a bad text returner.

An Wren: do you know how I know he still cares about me?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes.

An Wren: I, he sends me reels on Instagram all the time.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): go.

An Wren: That's how I know that there is still emotion and care for me. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's so cute.

An Wren: because I like text him and I'm like, Hey, what are you doing?

Hey, what are you doing? And nothing. I'll send something, nothing. And then all of a sudden, seven reels on Instagram. oh, he's still there.

Corey: I am still alive.

An Wren: He's still there.

Corey: If it makes you feel any better, I have 98 on red text messages.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): is

An Wren: What?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): What,

An Wren: Oh my gosh.

Corey: have 98.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Let's talk, let's break it down. What is happening? What is this?

Corey: I. I have self-diagnosed ADD have not been to an official doctor, but, if it's, this, if I don't see it in front of me at the time, I'll see somebody text me. And if I can't like reply right then and there, won't get a reply. It's not, it's nothing personal. It's just I don't see it. And then once it's already two days have passed, I'm like, oh, that doesn't matter anymore.

So they're like, they figured it out.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): prefer to communicate? Because

Corey: I

An Wren: He doesn't. He goes into a hole. He goes into a hole. You are lucky you got to have drinks. You, are lucky you got drinks the other day. That's why when he texted me, I was like, of course I'm coming out. I've never seen you. I'm coming. Come.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh, I love it.

An Wren: Like it, it's so hard to get ahold of him. And I, and, I tell people all the time, I tell our former colleagues, I still talk to one of our former colleagues and she's he hates me. And I'm like, no, he doesn't hate you. He's, he never texts back. He never texts back. And there's, when we were in the office together, I think people thought people actually, I, think people thought we hated each other.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): gosh.

An Wren: there was so much love between me and Corey that. I think we were So can you imagine like the best brother and sister relationship where you would just throw them under the bus in a heartbeat,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yep.

An Wren: but then also take a knife for them? Like same kind of thing. A little bit vague. A little bit graphic, but same thing like I, and so when, we would talk about each other or, in front of people, our relationship in front of people honestly thought that we hated each other.

and I felt really bad.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): this

An Wren: I was so mean.

Corey: a little sarcastic, sometimes a

An Wren: I just a little bit.

Corey: just a little bit.

An Wren: I used to make fun of him all the time. Like he was always the one I would pick on, anytime we were doing a demo.

Corey: I was the butt of all my jokes. Or You. Or you were. But I would,

An Wren: it was great. But I think because we were so close, we, knew, deep down inside that we, 'cause I've never laughed as hard as I have laughed with Corey at work. I, and I miss that. I miss that with him because here we are with the kids, right? And, it's, you and the kids and your colleagues are there for lunch and recess.

Not like when we were, especially when we were in the office and we shared an office. 'cause he and I were office mates the whole time,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): my

An Wren: until we got put in the pen in the corral. But when we were in the office, 

Corey: others.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.

An Wren: Even when COVID hit and we were back and we had a mask, bandaid, and we had to wear masks.

If we were sharing an office, we had to wear a mask together. And he looked at me and I looked at him and I went, this is stupid. we're not gonna wear a mask. Are we good? Like we're good. So we would close the door and take off our mask. We even, do you remember Corey? We set up that green screen curtain.

Do you?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): so nobody could see.

Corey: No us. It was the COVID barrier. COVID would not

An Wren: It was our, so now we could take off our masks.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): oh my God.

An Wren: We had, and so we had our desk on either side,

and it was a giant backdrop that we used to use for green screen movies. So we set it up.

Corey: screen we purchased, 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): my

An Wren: And so we would be behind the, and then every now and then we'd laugh, and so we knew we were looking at something that we shouldn't have been looking at, but that relationship was so special. It was a really, great,

Corey: Okay. I don't, even want to go to that one, but yeah,

An Wren: yeah.

Corey: down the hall at the reception desk, which is probably 50 yards the hallway, they would hear us

Cate Tolnai (she/her): my

Corey: and picking on each other.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): is 

Corey: was.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): the best y'all. That is like the dream, I think for anybody to end up, like whether it's on a C school site or especially in an office setting where you don't have like as much, you just need people, like you said, and you need people differently than when you're in the classroom.

It's so cool

Corey: I don't think it was the dream of the other people in the office.

An Wren: Oh, '

Corey: cause 

An Wren: were so envious.

They

were very envious of our relationship.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): You guys got away with it. You weren't told to quiet down.

An Wren: Oh, I got told often. To shut up.

Corey: they probably sent me a

An Wren: I got told. I got told. I got told, I laughed too loudly that I needed to calm down.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): All right.

An Wren: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I do know, we're taking it, we're taking it to the socials, Corey, because while you don't text, did tweet. Look at that

Corey: I did.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): You like that. You like that

Corey: I did. Yeah, I figured that one was coming. I know I was waiting for, but, you would talk to people on Twitter, but you won't respond to my text message.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): What? What do you want me to do?

Corey: I, I miss back in the days when we had Twitter chats like that, that to me was pretty solid. And even, like you would, meet someone in a Twitter chat and then start messaging them and talking about what you're doing and, into a new role, as a, as the tosa. didn't know everything that was going on. I knew what was going on in our little, silo. but that, was a huge thing. Being able to like, open up my eyes, here's what other districts are doing, here's what other people are doing.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

Corey: here's how they're using tech. That was huge. And, be, I don't know if I would've survived anywhere near as long as aTOSA without it.

because.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right? Like it's not about you.

An Wren: I think you would've, Corey, I think you would just wouldn't have been as good as you were.

Corey: Maybe,

An Wren: think he would've been just fine. But the level, if I had fallen off a cliff, I would've gladly given Corey my presentations. And I know he would've been like, he could have read my presentations exactly the way I wanted it to be, read, So I think he would've been just fine, in the TOSA office because I think you had that light still. You just knew more. You knew more people, and you got more resources by Twitter. I think that connection that you had with people was really unique.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): you not jump on that wagon in?

An Wren: I use Twitter as a marketing tool more. I, used it to get to know people. I attended a lot more conferences than he did, and I'm really good at in-person networking and so I, I'm not,

Corey: No,

An Wren: am.

Corey: me,

An Wren: Okay. Yeah. Corey was it was so funny having Corey come with me, Co I would, I'm really good at networking. I, can make friends.

I, interpersonal skills are probably my jam, right? I'm good at networking and talking to people and so I would schmooze a lot at conferences. I would always be the one at ISTE at q when it was a big deal and, so I would always be the one that would go to the conferences, meet people at the conferences, and then continue to talk online.

but I always met people.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): you're like emailing them, what did that look

An Wren: No, usually socials, it was Twitter for a long time. but I used Twitter for work for Cal State Fullerton. and then I started, like I didn't share as much on Twitter just because I felt like I did a lot more through the conference presentations. And then, so I think that I did so many presentations outside of Garden Grove that.

I meet people that way. And so my connections are through like the people, through Isti, the people through Ed Webb and Common Sense. And so I end up meeting these people in all these different organizations and I think that's how I grew is I attended and began to be a part of these organizations, these ed tech communities.

and that's I think, how I grew and, those ones that had The public meetups and things like that. That's how I got, I even, forced Corey to come with me. I wanted him to be a Google innovator with me

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh yeah.

An Wren: wAna do it. And so then I got in and then we were there for that day and I made him come up.

I'm like, come up, like games with us. And he came up.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Where was your, what, 

An Wren: It was Venice. Venice. We were in 18 LAX. Yeah, so we were in Venice, like we were closed.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): is such a

An Wren: Yeah. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I

An Wren: and you know what's great is that group, when Corey showed up, they were like, Corey,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): right.

An Wren: what's up? And I was like, and he wasn't even they, he showed up and everyone knew him.

And I was like, look at that. See, you should have been there. That should have been your group.

Corey: presence, 

An Wren: Yeah, it was so great.

Corey: I, am a, big introvert. like socially awkward, put me in front of a room and talk to a hundred people and present. I'm good. Like I know what I'm talking about. I can present, I can crack jokes. We're good. Sit me down with two or three people and just like small talk ick. ugh, I can't, do that. just not in my DNA to do that. And so that's why social media, being on social media, like getting to know somebody, like over social media, that helped me like be able to talk to people and have connections. But trying to do that in person for me 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): to start there for

Corey: super. Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): so, where do you get these. F Where do you fill your cup? Your social cups. Now both of you, are you presenting An and Corey? are you, where? Where are you putting all this stuff? Ladies and gentlemen?

What's going on? UTI Wait

isn't that

An Wren: yeah, that's, what you think it,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): okay?

more.

An Wren: so when we,

Corey: acronym we came up with. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Tell

An Wren: you came up with that one, that's all you honey.

Corey: I

An Wren: That is all you.

Corey: but what is it? 

An Wren: Underground Tech initiative.

Corey: underground. Yeah. we want an

UTI, let's have 

An Wren: so we,

Corey: a UTI.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): right?

Corey: not?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Let's just celebrate it.

Corey: They get a bad rap, 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh

An Wren: we, when we left the instructional tech office, we had a bunch of people who were like, what are we gonna do? Like, how are we gonna stay connected? How are we gonna keep learning? So we started a UTI.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.

An Wren: all got UTIs.

Corey: We spread it. 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Ooh,

An Wren: and we have this little, yeah, 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Tell me that's your

An Wren: we just have this little, no, now we need it.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): a green square sticker. That's it. That's your sticker. Keep going. Keep going.

An Wren: So that was it. That was just, it was a group of us that we now 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh,

An Wren: it's a Voxer group and it's just really,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I

An Wren: as people come in.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I do.

An Wren: I still use Voxer for Cal State Fullerton, so that's why I'm still on it. I, we have this little group, it's all teachers in our district and just like little things like, Hey, did you guys get this problem with this?

And we chat through that. Corey just brought up snorkel the other day in UTI and we were arguing over it. See, we were arguing over it.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): really like that

An Wren: See

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Or

An Wren: those things, 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): excited about it. Okay. We don't have to get on snorkel. We don't have to go down snorkel road. That's fine.

An Wren: I have thoughts.

Corey: to set up even though it's not.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh wow.

Corey: Maybe it's

An Wren: Have you set one up?

Corey: Yes.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): sounds judgy. Corey. I don't, know

Corey: Created them. It is like you literally tell it, here's what you want to do, and there's this button that says can figure out what you want out of it.

An Wren: I also have a little bit of, distrust of ai.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh,

An Wren: I also have That's a whole nother, that's a whole nother,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): no, I

An Wren: yeah. That's another podcast. Yeah.

But.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): go ahead.

Corey: it's giving feedback. It's not giving grades, but.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Do you find that it like triggers you to

Corey: See this is, remember the brother sister relationship?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah. Of

Corey: This is, it right here.

An Wren: If, we didn't have this, we wouldn't be as good because if I didn't have someone to be like, An, that's, I was gonna use another word, but that's not right.

I need someone. Yeah, there you go. I need someone to say, Because I am, I have a strong personality and I have my opinions.

And if I didn't have someone like Corey to be like, Nope, and you're wrong, and alright, I guess I'm wrong. And I respect him and his opinions, so it's, I need, people like that.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay. I love it so much. I'm so happy to know that UTIs exist in your world for both of you, so this makes me really happy.

Corey: And they're a good

An Wren: Even, though he never calls me, I literally saw him driving to work one day and I was like, I, no, 

Cate Tolnai (she/her): today.

An Wren: okay. And then every day since then, I'm like, where is he? Where is he? Is he gonna drive?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): okay, your homework, Corey, is to maybe work on that 10% harder is all I'm gonna say on that one. That is 

Corey: Is that's my IEP goal.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): your, yeah,

Corey: Okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): tier one intervention right there.

Corey: I, will text An with a 10%.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Increase

An Wren: Just keep the reels coming. We're good. I'm good. That's my validation. The reels are coming. They're funny. His reels are hilarious.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): that relationship with, my friend Jeff. He and I have both done a ton of, oh, you guys, met him He was at when we went out. Yeah. He, does. He's my Instagram. That's, our little love language is he'll just, send me one over and I'll just kinda giggle and send it back.

And I think it's legit. I think it's real. 

An Wren: It's definitely real.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah. Here's the, last question I have for you too. Now you're back at school sites and you've gone through and you've experienced the, type of working environment in which you, are in front of the kids, not in front of the kids, back in front of the kids, all the things and all the things and layers that, that includes.

if you could go back, now that you have the, those years of wisdom, if you could go back to like your teacher self in your versions of year two or three, what would you, what wisdom would you impart upon year two, Ren? two. Mr. Matthias, did I say her last name right? Matthias Corey. Matthias.

Corey: I've been called worse.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah. Probably by me. There you go.

Corey: don't worry, it's only gonna get harder. Is that, would that be good advice? No.

An Wren: So bad.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): and

Corey: know.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): me.

Corey: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay. that is your truth.

Corey: that's not, what I would say, but yeah, I didn't, we didn't really talk about it, but yeah, the idea of coming back like it, like An said, it's a first year teacher all over again. Like I am that second year teacher right now. So I don't know what advice I have because that's me

An Wren: I have advice for you.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh, I love that. Okay. Give each other

Corey: Text back,

An Wren: Huh? Oh yeah. No, that's not your advice. My, my advice, and this is the same advice. I have two teachers on campus that are year one and year two teachers. my advice is don't forget to have fun.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

An Wren: you can't let all those IEP goals, all those meetings, all the papers you need to grade all the things that you feel like you're behind on.

You can't let that get in the way of what really why you are here to begin with. you, are here because you have a calling that. Where kids love being in your class. Kids love being there because they like laughing with you. They love learning new things with you, and they wAna know more. Don't forget that.

Don't forget that's why you're here and the other stuff isn't important. That, that, calling that you have, that's the most important thing and everything else will be okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I love that.

Corey: So good.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): good.

Corey: Oh man.

An Wren: But it's true.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): true.

An Wren: It's so true. It's like I get, we get lost in that stuff so much. Especially here, right? Corey? so much stuff.

Corey: I, don't, and I, would just say remember what's important, on the same line, yeah, you're gonna get messages. This is probably not appropriate for people from my district were reading this, but you're gonna get This is what's important from the district, what's important.

You know your kids, you know what's best for them. know, there's gonna be this swinging pendulum of curriculum that you know you're gonna do. You're gonna do groups and separate them out. Oh no, we're gonna keep everybody whole group and we're gonna go to small groups again. And so you're gonna get theories back and forth Things will change. Just do what works best for the kids. Try new things, see what works. throw the spaghetti against the wall, see what sticks. don't be afraid new things. And I think, one reason An and I were able to survive well in tech is we, were, we, tried things right.

And that's where a lot of teachers in the classroom aren't willing to do. They're not willing to try new things, like they have their tried and true way, but there might be a better way. whether that's tech or not. There, there might be a

An Wren: It's.

Corey: way. And think about, how you could, do that.

And like fun is like huge. that's one of my big, know, philosophies. Like learning should be fun. if I'm bored, God, the kids must be super bored.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my gosh. I

Yeah. I feel the same way y'all, just wAna say three cheers to, people who have made it in education for more than two decades. What? That just sounds fancier than 20 years. It just does. Okay. So the two decade club right here.

An Wren: Collectively. Collectively

Cate Tolnai (she/her): years

An Wren: we're a pretty,

Corey: years

An Wren: pretty nice, yep. Yep.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): And I still feel like a first year teacher. I do too. Oh, you guys are the best. I,

Corey: but.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah, no.

Corey: I think, feeling a first year teacher every now and then is good.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

Corey: those the biggest problem I have with teachers who have been doing it for 15 years and they're still doing it the same way they did day one. are different kids. These kids post COVID are different.

You can't

An Wren: Oh.

Corey: thing.

An Wren: I have to say, one of the things I think, Corey, that you may not have heard this, I heard it at the Adobe Summit. a lot of PTs are going back to the classroom and they are scared out of their minds. I think it was the best move I've ever, for my career, for me as a learner because now I can see what our teachers are going through and I can still do the ed tech space, right?

I think, and, Corey, I never, told you this 'cause you don't call me, but, we have, so many people who admire this move, this shift that we did because we are thriving

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.

An Wren: I really, I do believe, I firmly believe that it's such a scary move for so many people who have been, doing a job for a while, and now that position is cut and they're going back.

I got so many emails and messages after the summit, about that because they were like, I'm so scared. I have no idea what I'm gonna do, but it's nice to know that there's light on the other side.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh,

An Wren: So it was really nice.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): In your own way, you're being like that, that lone nut still you're like,

An Wren: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): be one of the first posas to go back and then I'll let you know that you'll make it it's gonna be

An Wren: Yeah. It'll be okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): okay.

An Wren: And it, will if we, focus on what we have always loved since day one, it's always been the kids.

Corey: like we, like I said before, we'll try new things like

An Wren: Yeah.

Corey: typically aren't afraid to try something new.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah. Not everybody who

Corey: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): TOSA like year or two or three. And by the way, TOSA on teacher on special assignment, like these special assignments look and feel really different, and not everybody gets the same experiences. It's true. from different disciplines to different resources, to different like norms within those communities.

And you're right, I think the one that, my little nugget that I wAna take away from this conversation is just a reminder that like the mindset of a TOSA is not tethered to a position, right? That it

An Wren: Yeah.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): like a choice that we've made and. a mindset that we've nurtured over time and now we get to see what it looks like to be the classroom teacher or the adjunct faculty person who's going to go actually, we're gonna, we're gonna, our worlds are gonna change.

But like openness to being flexible and not in control and clamp it and let your students talk sort of thing, like that

to the world that we all share in common. And I. you both sharing your stories and your friendship.

Corey: You're welcome.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): that's a wrap guys. 4

An Wren: Yay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): 6, so now you get to go home and live your post school life.

An Wren: Yep. I don't think I have. I, like I Corey, do you grade a lot at home? I don't grade a lot, I just don't grade.

Corey: don't grade a lot.

An Wren: Yeah, same here. Thank goodness. Okay. Because I'm like, this isn't worth anything. I know. I can give you a grade. We're good.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): I love

An Wren: okay. Yeah. 'cause when I go home, it's, we're, it's home. It's home life.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): And we gotta do it 'cause we gotta fill those buckets. you're both wonderful human beings and I adore you and I appreciate you both for being on the bridge.

An Wren: Thanks for having us.

Corey: Okay. went looking for, how do I find it?

Cate Tolnai (she/her): oh, gr I love this question. we'll have a link in our show notes, 

Corey: Okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): www.alludolearning.com/the-bridge. It could be easier, but we will get you there.

Corey: Oh, it's on, it's hosted on Alludo. Okay,

Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah,

Corey: cool.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): can find the recordings and the show notes, and the blog posts and all of that. it's also on YouTube, just under The Bridge and Alludo.

We would probably have to type both, but

Corey: Okay.

Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah. all right, my friends. Have a great week. Bye.