Dr. Natasha Rachell, Director of Instructional Technology for Atlanta Public Schools, shares her nontraditional journey from retail management to education after a principal took a chance on her, sparking a 22-year career in teaching and leadership. She reflects on the power of mentorship, intentional relationships, and surrounding yourself with people who advocate for you.
Natasha describes leading AI integration across her district—from leadership to students—grounded in ethics, responsibility, and the belief that “the teacher will always be the magic.” Her “executive board” framework—seven key people every educator should have in their corner—offers a practical blueprint for growth and support. Ultimately, her story embodies courage, connection, and saying “yes” before you feel ready.
Dr. Natasha Rachell is a passionate and dynamic leader in educational technology, currently serving as the Director of Instructional Technology for Atlanta Public Schools. With over twenty years in educational leadership, she has dedicated her career to transforming teaching and learning through innovative, equitable, and student-centered technology integration.
Dr. Rachell earned a Doctorate in Organizational Leadership with a focus on Effective Schools, an Educational Specialist degree in Curriculum and Instruction, a Master’s in Education Administration, and a Bachelor’s in Biology Pre-Med. Her extensive academic credentials are complemented by groundbreaking achievements, including the Tablet2Read initiative, which deployed 8,500 iPads to young learners, the districtwide eSports pipeline program that expanded competitive gaming into all elementary and middle schools, and a top down approach and implementation of AI district wide.
Her leadership has earned national recognition. Honored as one of EdTech Magazine’s “30 IT Influencers to Watch” in 2024, Dr. Rachell has also been recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and led her department to receive the ISTE Distinguished District Award in 2023. She has secured millions in funding for instructional technology and cultivated partnerships with Verizon, Apple, Microsoft, and Google for Education, ensuring that students and educators have access to world-class tools and opportunities.
Beyond her district role, Dr. Rachell is a sought-after speaker, writer, and thought leader. She contributes actively to the field of educational technology through national speaking engagements, publications, and service as a community leader with the International Society for Technology in Education. Her unwavering commitment to digital equity, innovation, and future-ready learning continues to inspire educators nationwide.
Guided this year by a motto of creating “Undeniable Impact,” Dr. Rachell empowers educators to embrace creativity, collaboration, and technology to reimagine classrooms where every student can thrive.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): All right, well welcome, Natasha to the bridge. It is lovely to meet you and be in your orbit. Now, as is the case, on The Bridge, I have been graced with new friendships because of our friend in common. Ann Kozma, who was my very first guest, she was a first guest because I really couldn't even like imagine The Bridge without having Ann help frame it. Right.
Natasha: Right.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): but welcome and just would love to have you introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you.
Natasha: Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. And like I said to you earlier, any friend of Ann is a friend of mine,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right.
Natasha: we are now
Cate Tolnai (she/her): There
Natasha: at the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you go.
Natasha: BFFs. Um,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Love it.
Natasha: so yeah, just, I mean, really quickly, I'm Natasha Rachell. I'm the Director of Instructional Technology for Atlanta Public Schools. Um, I have an alternative route into the field of education and my leadership journey is. little different. I'm sure we'll talk about that. Um, but just super excited to be here. I'm married. I have two grown
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh,
Natasha: Um,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): grown?
Natasha: one is grown, the oldest, I have two boys. The oldest is 28. He's an accountant and he is actually, I don't know if I should say this, but he's gonna be proposing to his girlfriend in December.
So super
Cate Tolnai (she/her): my God.
Natasha: Oh, I will finally have like a daughter in my life for finally.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's awesome.
Natasha: my youngest son just turned 21. He's a senior at LSU, go Tigers, and he's majoring in mechanical engineering.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): gosh.
Natasha: is good. Life is
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Life is so good. And so how many, how, what year are you on your education journey? Like how long have you been doing this jam?
Natasha: Yeah, so I'm alternatively certified, so this is year 22 for
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.
Natasha: Um, had I gone straight
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Uhhuh.
Natasha: after college, I think I would have like three more
Cate Tolnai (she/her): okay.
Natasha: till I can retire, which is weird because I don't feel old
Cate Tolnai (she/her): No.
Natasha: retire. Like people around me are getting ready to retire, but I don't feel. enough to retire, which is so weird. Like to think that I could be sitting on my couch in three
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my gosh. I mean,, would you really be sitting on your couch though? Like I
Natasha: no, we would find
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I
Natasha: to do. Right.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you would start teaching teachers is what you would do?
Natasha: Uh, you know what? You're probably
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes.
Natasha: right.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): we just discussed, the joy of like helping to shape future teachers, right? Mm.
Natasha: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Tell us about how you, um, how your day to day, what it looks like. Because I, one of the things I'll share is just like when I, when, when I found out we were gonna get a chance to connect and I started learning about the scale of your work, um.
Like, it's just kind of mind blowing to, to understand the impact, like of innovation and change that you do and that you have to manage at, you know, with so many humans and, and impacting so many children and so many families. So what does a day to day look like?
Natasha: Every day is different. Um, that sounds so
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Sure.
Natasha: every single day is different. Um, right now I'm doing a lot of convincing people that AI is
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natasha: and so that is. Interesting. Um, we have rolled out AI from the top down, so we got buy-in from like our leaders first, and then our school leaders, and then our teachers, and then our students.
So we did it the right way, but it's just a lot of explaining and, you know, the governance
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah, yeah.
Natasha: have we done. And have we done that? And so it's bringing all the people to the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: the right conversation. So that's what I'm spending a lot of my
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Got it.
Natasha: I will say that I feel like my days kind of operate in cycles.
So like the start of the new year, then we kind of roll into like the fall, which is where we
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: doing like all the AI and you know, a couple different things. And then when January hits. We're getting ready for our technology and innovation competition, our eSports competition, our film festival.
So like that's when all of our programming hits, and that's just like a super busy season. And then summertime hits and my team gets to go home for three weeks and I get to stay at work and plan for the upcoming year. So it's like a, almost, I don't know if you think of it like a, a circle and there's like the four Seasons and. It's so weird. Yeah. So I mean, lots of meetings
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yep.
Natasha: Um, bringing the right minds and the right people to the table to make decisions and have meaningful conversation. And, um, my goal this year is to get out of the office and get into schools more and more and more. Like I wanna see it in
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natasha: And so that's kind of where we are.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): So, okay, you've said this a few times, you have an alternative path. It sounds like you had a taste of another career, maybe before education. Okay. And then is that the alternative path or what else? Like unpack it.
Natasha: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So, so much. Let me see if I can make this story a little shorter for you. Um, so when I was in college, I, I grew up in Southern California
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Where? Where did you grow up?
Natasha: I grew up in a city called Moreno Valley
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I know Moreno Valley. Yeah.
Natasha: You? Yeah, that's
Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's amazing.
Natasha: Canyon Springs
Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's amazing.
Natasha: Um. And loved it. Absolutely loved it. And when we were, I have a twin brother, when
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh gosh.
Natasha: to graduate, um, my parents were divorced and my mom, she's from England, we were born in England and she was like, you're going to college. But really, because the education system in England is different, did, she didn't really know how to. Kind of navigate us
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Uh,
Natasha: And so we kind of had to figure that out. But we were going to college like
Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah.
Natasha: end of the conversation. And so the Olympics, we knew were coming to Atlanta a few
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh.
Natasha: then and we didn't know anybody in Atlanta. And I filled out our college applications. I filled out mine
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my God, I love it.
Natasha: um,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): What a good sister
Natasha: I'm what a good sister I am. Uh, so I filled out our applications for this school, um, called Clark Atlanta University, and we got in and then they started sending us all this, all these pamphlets. And this is before the internet. Um, God, that sounds so old.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that is.
Natasha: they
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Funny.
Natasha: it is, it's we're old. So they started sending us all this information and we found out about this school that was maybe a mile, well, maybe a mile away, half a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Uh huh.
Natasha: from Clark Atlanta called Morris Brown. Morris Brown would give the youngest twin, which was me, free tuition. But at Clark Atlanta, the youngest twin only got, they paid for half the tuition. So
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh,
Natasha: that simple. Piece of knowledge made us decide to go to Morris
Cate Tolnai (she/her): hmm.
Natasha: So went to college, majored in biology pre-med. I actually got married and had my young, my oldest son, um, while I was in
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh wow.
Natasha: a different path than, you know, the traditional
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.
Natasha: um. And so, majored in bio pre-med and by the time I got married and had my son, it was like, let's just hurry up and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: And so while I was in college, I was working part-time at Bath and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: and I graduated and my district manager said, Hey, do you wanna be an assistant manager?
And I was like, heck
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: to look for a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah,
Natasha: do
Cate Tolnai (she/her): absolutely.
Natasha: And I'll never forget I was making $27,500 and I just thought I was bawling outta
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right?
Natasha: Um, which when you look back, I'm like, oh, how did I survive? Um. Crazy. So yeah, I worked retail management for a number of years. Um, I became an assistant manager, then a manager, and then I got recruited to Ann Taylor Loft
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: And so then I got pregnant with my second son, and my husband called me one day when I went back to work. And I just could hear my youngest son in the background like screaming and crying and he was like, I fed him, I changed him. I just don't know what to do. And I was like, yeah, this isn't gonna work anymore. Because in retail, the only days you're guaranteed off are Christmas and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Sure.
Natasha: You work, you could work every other
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: Um, and so I knew I had to make a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: my job and became a substitute teacher. and there is a high school that is maybe about three miles
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: and I would pick up jobs at
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: and that lasted for about two weeks, and then a full-time science position
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: And because I'm biology pre-med,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): right. Mm-hmm.
Natasha: maybe I could do this. Didn't know what route to take, like. had no idea. And so I saw the job was posted and I went to the principal and I said, Hey, I've been subbing here for like three weeks. I see you have this position open. Like how do I get in?
Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's awesome.
Natasha: and so I interviewed, her name was Margie Smith. I still adore her to this day. Um, she interviewed and she sat across from me at that table and she said to me, I see something in you. You're gonna make me proud. You're gonna be my star baby. And.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): gosh.
Natasha: day. I remember that. And every time I talk to her, I just remind her of that.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): She says, you're gonna be my star, baby.
Natasha: yes, and you're going to make me proud. Like you don't have an option, girl. I'm gonna hire you and take a chance on you, and you're gonna make me proud.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my gosh.
Natasha: And so she took a chance on me. And so she hired me and she said, here's some paperwork.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.
Natasha: central office. You're gonna enroll in the Georgia TAP program, which was a teacher alternative preparation program, and here's your teacher edition textbook.
Go be great. And so I walked in the class and I was like, Hey, I'm here. Had no idea how to
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.
Natasha: Um, yeah. And so that's what started it. I taught for. eight years, I think. Um, and then transitioned into the central office into professional learning. Um, and I actually was a transition to teaching coach for math and science, um, for paraprofessionals that wanted to transition to teach into math or
Cate Tolnai (she/her): What a perfect fit based on what you experienced. Wow.
Natasha: all the pieces just like have fallen together. Um, and so I did that. That was a, um, grant funded program, so that lasted two years, and then I transitioned into Atlanta public schools. So I, I skipped districts. Um, and I started as a ed tech specialist and then became a science digital learning specialist.
And for the past. Almost five years now have been the director of Instructional technology.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): So how did you go, how did you get into that level of leadership though? That's what I think is really interesting, right? Is 'cause it's, it's, it sounds like you, well. It definitely sounds like you didn't go the traditional leadership path in education, which I had. I didn't either. And so super curious how that came together, how the leadership unlocked for you.
Natasha: so I had my
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: um, and then, you know, once you, once I finished my teacher preparation program, you know, everybody, all the teachers say, well, in order to earn more money, you have to get more degrees. And so I got my master's degree in curriculum
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Then, um, I got my spec. No. I got my master's degree in educational
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: Then I got my, um, specialist in curriculum and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Got it.
Natasha: then I got my doctorate in organizational leadership. And so, um, I definitely
Cate Tolnai (she/her): That's right, doctor. No, I just wanna say no.
Natasha: we the same?
Cate Tolnai (she/her): No, I am not a doctor. I will be one day. I'm manifesting.
Natasha: you
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I will.
Natasha: you
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Um, but love that, that, did you see that as a key to unlock opportunity like more Yeah. You needed it to.
Natasha: I
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay. Okay.
Natasha: yeah, so the school that I got my, um, leadership certificate from. Georgia changed a lot of their rules, like within those years that I was in that little, it was like a, a weird time. Like you had to be done by a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: you know, that school wasn't gonna be recognized in Georgia anymore.
And so I
Cate Tolnai (she/her): interesting.
Natasha: the puzzle pieces
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Um, and I will say, if I just think back, people have always. The people that I've surrounded myself around have always pushed me to dream bigger and, and know that I'm capable of doing more. Um, and so I think, you know, of course the degrees are great to have and it, it adds like some credibility, you know, to
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Um, but I also think having the right people that
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: for you and speak your name in the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: um, the ones that encourage you and push you. wanna pour into you without feeling that they need something in return. I think that has probably been a bigger piece for me.
Like I've always just had the right people on my
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Is that something you, you've cultivated or is that, yeah. Okay. Is that something that kind of came easily for you?
Natasha: I, I mean, I talk to everybody. I'm a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Natasha: mean, if you're a friend of Ann, you
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right, right.
Natasha: who surrounds her.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Well, and I'll say the moment you came on screen today, like I was like, you are sunshine. Like I don't, I don't even know you, and you're bright and lovely and you're on screen like, I can't even imagine
Natasha: Oh, thank you. Well, I will say we do, um, the strength finders in our district, and my number one strength is positivity. And so I don't, I always think that has something to do with
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: um, yeah, I definitely worked on cultivating those relationships and I think. The older, maybe at first when I
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: um, I wasn't as intentional about it.
They just kind of formed. But the older, I don't wanna say older, the more I've matriculated through education, you definitely have to be more intentional about, about cultivating those relationships.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and did that look like, um. Well, I'm trying to think like, like unlocking, you said like people that will advocate for you in a room that you're not in. Right? Like people, so, so it, I, you know, I'm just thinking about like. Teachers that are in their third or their fourth year and they're like, wondering what this future looks like, or if I wanna get into leadership or if I wanna make more money or if I, you know, like all the things like, so we've talked a lot on this podcast about like, finding your people and, and making sure you're connecting.
And, um, and what I love about what you're sharing is that, you know, it's finding your people, but it's also like. Like harnessing your people, you know, and like
Natasha: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): available in for them in ways that they're available for you. That like symbiotic relationship is really important. And probably, I would imagine it took, it took me many years to feel like I had value to add.
Right.
Natasha: Oh yes. Yeah,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I didn't know how to define that. Yeah. Yeah.
Natasha: Yeah, I think, um. When I think back on it, like when I was a first year teacher, like trying to
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: I think my second year teaching, they needed a cheerleading coach and I was like, oh, I was a cheerleader in high school.
I'll do it. Sure. Um, and then when I was going through my teacher preparation program, like I would form intentional relationships with the teachers that were teaching those courses, um, with my mentor that was my mentor for that program. Um. I think like sometimes, like when I was a, a digital learning specialist, I remember going to my boss and saying, Hey, give me more
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: I'm
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Like I wanna learn more. Um, and you can't do that in every season, right? Like if you've got little
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: home, or maybe you're working
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: or. Whatever, like I think of these, you know, third and fourth year teachers that may not be in a season to be able to take on the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: but when you get to that season of life, and one thing my mom always used to say when, when we were, um, growing up, she would say, there's never a perfect time to do anything.
So in order for the. Perfect time to come. You kind of just have to make it
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: And so if you continuously wait, like I'm gonna wait till I get married and I'm gonna wait till I have kids and I'm gonna wait till I finish this degree. Like you're just gonna be waiting
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: and you're never going
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: be able to, I don't wanna say take on the extra, but be able to pour more
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: able to, to advance.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I think too, like part part of saying yes is, I mean it, you know, it literally will add more to your plate. But like I also found that the more that was added to my plate, the more I said yes to stuff, the more confident I became And. And the more like I got closer and closer to understanding what my gifts were and what my genius was and like how I could actually like add that value.
And it, it stripped the imposter syndrome away because I started saying yes and I was like, wow, I could do that. You know?
Natasha: Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Why not?
Cate Tolnai (she/her): right.
Natasha: everybody? Everybody has started somewhere and just because you look at. Um, like there's some, some women in my life in the educational space that I, that I work in that are doing different things and I look at them and I'm just, I'm always in
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Like, I just hold them on this, this pedestal. And I just, whenever I think about them and they're so down to earth and giving and, and they pour into me, but I'm just like, wow. Like I can't wait to be them
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah,
Natasha: and then I have to sit and remember and think
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you are them. Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Somebody sent me a text message. Yes. Or the day before, I was kind of talking to them about a situation and she texted me and she said, remember who you are? That's all she said. And I just said, you know what? She's so
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm.
Natasha: She is so, I have so much to offer and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: give. And so, you know, when that imposter
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: sets in for anybody listening, remember who you are. Like you are here for a reason. Pull a seat up to the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: let your voice be
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Totally. And, and what lights your fire is going to light someone else's. Like I say that all the time, like, because I, I, um, I have this habit of presenting on things and at, at conferences that I've never been to before. And like, oh, I'm going to a conference. Great. I'm gonna present, you know, like, oh, I don't, I'm not exactly sure what it's about, but I'm not exactly sure the audience.
But like, I'll, I'll find out and um, and I'll put myself out there because. Because that's for me, the way that I find, uh. Like, I, I find my comfort, you know, is being in front of people and I say all the time, like, like the smartest person in the room is the room. And, and I think if we lead with that awareness that like, we are not the expert, we are just the expert learner.
Like that ends up being, especially with ai. So, so can we talk about ai? I'm so like, okay, I haven't got a chance to talk about AI with people on the podcast, but like, you're perfect for this. So.
Natasha: Let's do
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh my God. I, um, I started a position at the county office in Santa Barbara in October of 22. And so literally the next month, Chachi peachy drops.
Right. And I'm like, this is what we're doing.
Natasha: Yep. I guess this is what we're doing
Cate Tolnai (she/her): There you go. So what has that been like to manage? I mean, like you said, you're the one who's like, we're doing it. Um, what's that journey been like? I mean, that's a big question, but, you know. Yeah.
Natasha: I mean it's, we're still
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah, of course, of course.
Natasha: To think that, you know, October 22 and here we are, October of 25, and so like insanity. And to think like what did the world exist and look like before ChatGPT, like I use it every single
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: Um. I even find myself going to chat GPT before I go to Google now.
Um,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): too. That is interesting. Uhhuh.
Natasha: Yeah. So at the district's level, um. we were just super intentional. Like when chat GPT came out and everyone was like, what is it? I don't know that we had like Gemini and copilot just yet. Um, the EdTech companies hadn't started infusing it in yet, so we just knew
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: and you know, of course if you don't work in this space, you think, oh, it's just.
You know, it's the new cheating
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right.
Natasha: Kids are gonna cheat. Well, kids were cheating before
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Thank you.
Natasha: and they're gonna cheat
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Thank you.
Natasha: GPT. So you know, there's that. But I remember going to our information technology, um, chief and I said, Hey, what are we doing? Like, what are your thoughts? Because I wanna leave it on like, what are you thinking? And he said, we're absolutely
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh, interesting.
Natasha: He said, if we are going to create global citizens that can compete at a global level, we have to be able to teach to them how to use this ethically and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: That's all I needed to hear. Like I was like, green light,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: And so we started training our central office leadership.
Everybody from the superintendent, cluster superintendents, our central office staff. we got them on board, super excited. And you still have people that are hesitant,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: Like. They think the com, you know, chat, GPT is stealing your information or whatever.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): And maybe it is, right? Like we we're figuring it out.
Natasha: yeah. Yeah. So you just have to be
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: again about what you
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right.
Natasha: right? Um, and so we started with them and then summer leadership, two years ago, we trained all of our principals and assistant principals. And what I love when you train these people on ai, like you, the light bulbs, it just. Oh my gosh.
I put this in and look what it gave me and, and like, it's amazing. I just, I
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: light bulb, teachable moments and so we know it's, I mean, it's a fact. AI will make your productivity, I mean, just increase and skyrocket through the roof. We know that it can be a tutor. For students that need it.
We know that it can level the playing field. And so when I think about our students that go to school and then come home and there's not a parent there because the parent may be working a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: or maybe they just don't know, right? Like, I can think of my kids in high school coming to me for help with math and I'm like, dude, I don't know it.
Like go
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: I have no idea. So AI is able to serve as that. On time level, the playing field tutor. So you have parents that can afford to go get tutors and, and do all these
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: And then we have parents that can't. And so we know that it levels the playing field. Um, and so we trained our principals, our aps, our teachers, and our students.
Um, we've got Gemini, we've got CoPilot, um, magic school, brisk, I mean, we have jumped
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: It is here and the, it's not
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: And whenever I meet hesitant people, um, I was just talking to one of our communications people the o couple weeks ago. He was like, now what am I doing with this? And I was like, okay, take a breath. I was like, here's some use
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: here's some ways that you could use it. And he said, well, kids are just gonna cheat. And I said, this is no different than when a calculator
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yep.
Natasha: And when Google
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: we navigated through it, we put things in place, and now look at us. that's kind of how we've, we've navigated it huge on ethics.
Huge on responsibility. Um, and we, the one thing I'll kind of leave with this, we are, um, very intentional about saying whatever you put in as a human, whatever you put into ai. You're gonna put your human content, I need you to do A, B, and
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: then it's gonna give you the AI component. You always have to follow up with that
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: component on the end.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Like a human sandwich.
Natasha: human sandwich. You have to, because you have to make sure it's reliable, right? And you just, you gotta make sure that it's giving you what you
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah. That and, and I, and that is so empowering and I think that people are quick to think that it's going, that the technology is going to strip the power away from the human, but I find it's the exact opposite. Like I have found that my, um. My ideas are a little sharper, and that I, when you learn how to prompt and when you learn how to be the human in the loop and how to be in charge of the machine, then, then you kind of harness it.
And that is what, that's, and it's hard to explain that when people haven't had experience and that's,
Natasha: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): like I, um, I'm currently working at the University of Phoenix, um, and we, we serve a Totally unique student population, and we are, do, we are, we are heavily invested in being at the, at the forefront of AI and higher education, and which is exciting and great, and we're all talking about career skills and, and getting career ready and getting our, I mean, many of our.
Many of our students are already in careers, you know, and they're looking to like upskill. And so what does upskilling look like with ai? You know, and what is
Natasha: Right.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you know, how do we, how do we leverage it to like expedite the learner experience? And, and yet I, you know, for the first three years of my time in, in ai, I've been focused on, hey, teachers, you're, you still know children, you still know their brains.
You know how. Students develop. Like, don't forget that just 'cause AI is here doesn't mean we don't forget that. Like probably third graders don't need to be in it very deeply. You know? 'cause like their brains aren't there. Like,
Natasha: right,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): take a beat. Like remember that you are the experts in child development and in pedagogy.
Mm mm And don't let, that's it. I think it can be as simple as that. Um,
Natasha: yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and, and.
Natasha: The teacher will always be the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right,
Natasha: technology, AI, or otherwise is going to replace a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): right,
Natasha: in the classroom. I'm a firm believer in
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: need that expert teacher in front of
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah. I mean, that's what makes you good at what you do because you're driving the innovation and change with technology, but then you're also so grounded in, in like the, the force of the teacher in the room and the power of human relationships and like.
Natasha: Absolutely
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that's not to be forgotten.
And I, it's so interesting, I've learned about different school models that are, um, I don't know if you're familiar with the Alpha School model.
Natasha: Yes.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Kind of interesting. So, so just like quick summary, it's basically leveraging AI to do the direct instruction and like hard skill development for a portion of the day.
And then the, the students are there focusing on passion projects and, um, experiential learning. And for the majority of the school day, which I look at that and I'm like, I'm just, I can't wait to watch what happens here. Like,
Natasha: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I don't know. I don't, I know that what we have currently in, in our traditional system isn't really working, so not for everyone.
So I'm like,
Natasha: know.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm. Like I appreciate that. We're shaking it up. We'll see what happens.
Natasha: We're definitely at a crossroads in education for
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: you know, the narrative, and I, you know, I hate to keep harping on COVID as the reason
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh
Natasha: COVID happened to the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah.
Natasha: just happen to us here in Georgia or to the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: everywhere.
So I do eventually want us to stop saying like, well, COVID
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: maybe it did, but like, let's.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: Let's get on the other
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Um, so I do feel like we're at this crossroads because there's this narrative that a lot of our students are not reading on
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: Math is like a huge thing across the country. Um, and so there is a need to shake it up and figure it out. So it's gonna be very interesting to see. What
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: But we do know that kids have to learn their
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: They have to learn how to
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: you know, they have to learn common
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: things that we teach. Um, but I, I'm very curious to see because developing like those skills and, and having that experiential learning opportunity, I think is just gonna be amazing.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): totally.
Natasha: It's weird.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): know, and, and I think about like, um, sitting in a classroom where I'm struggling with a concept and the person next to me gets it and like the, what happens? What happens, like socially and emotionally when I am needing to ask for help from somebody else and that person helps me, versus a computer adopting to my learning strengths.
Like, I would miss that in, in a model similar, you know? So, I don't know. I, I, they obviously they're figuring it out too, but I, uh, I don't know. It's, um, it's, it's. It's time for us. I think this is just a great opportunity for us to like, ask those hard questions of our systems and go, we know we need to shift things up, so where can we shift?
And,
Natasha: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and I, I, I guess this is where, this kind of leads to my final question for you, which is, you know, in light of all of the innovation and from your perspective, all, all of the tools you mentioned too, like the opportunities that are out there, what, what advice would you offer. Educators that are, that are in this career, they've committed to doing this, and they have the overwhelm that we know, they feel with all of the new, like, do you have, what?
What do you, what do you, what do you say to them?
Natasha: Yeah, I think, um, what I would say is those of us that are on kind of the other
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: of the education. Career, um, we're, we need people to take our
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: We're, we're years away from retirement or, or whatever that looks like. Um, and so education is still an amazing field to be in. Um, the, you know, are you in it for the money?
Probably not, right? You could be, but,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Probably not.
Natasha: um, probably not. But you are in it. For the right reasons. Like you are shaping minds, you are forming
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: with students that literally last a
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: been invited to weddings and baby
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh,
Natasha: and, um, people still talk about things that we did in class,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): oh,
Natasha: you don't get that from anywhere else, right?
Every career. No matter what career it is in this world goes through a teacher.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): yep.
Natasha: And so that's a huge responsibility. Um, the advice that I would give two pieces of advice. One is gonna be to just jump out, take risks, and say yes. Don't be afraid. Like if you are given an opportunity, say yes and then figure it out even if you don't
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes.
Natasha: it is, right.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Love that.
Natasha: Like jump in and then figure it out later. Surround yourself with people that can help you do that, but don't not take an opportunity because you feel, you know, intimidated or scared or 'cause there's never gonna be a right time. So say yes and do the thing. The second piece of advice that I'm gonna offer is to create an executive board. Um, and this is something that I learned much, much, much too late in my career. Um, but you need to form an executive board. And on your executive board, you're gonna surround yourself with seven different types of people. You're gonna have a mentor. This is somebody with more experience than you. In your field, going to have a sponsor.
That's someone who is in a position of influence that will advocate for you even when you're not there. gonna have a challenger who pushes you to grow. So sometimes, like this is a person that's gonna tell you what you need to hear and not what you wanna hear. Um, a peer coach that's gonna be your trusted, you know, colleague or friend, um, that can give you real time support. You're gonna need a connector. That's someone who knows a lot of people and a lot about everything. I think Ann is a great
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes.
Natasha: because she connects, right? Like she's just so good
Cate Tolnai (she/her): She's so good.
Natasha: yeah, you need a visionary that someone's who, who's gonna help you dream bigger and think bigger. And then you need an accountability partner. So this is, this is the person that's gonna hold you to your goals and check
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hmm.
Natasha: And once you have those seven people sitting at your table like you're
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.
Natasha: You are
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Where was this framework in my life? Where has this been? It's beautiful. I hear
Natasha: telling
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it's, you know, it's so, um. Concrete because, because we say a lot, find your people, find your people, um, which I find your people. But to actually have like, uh, like these personas in mind, like as you were talking, I'm sitting here going, Ooh, I need that one.
Natasha: Right. And you may have people that serve in, like, there's two women. There's, it's the three of us and we actually call ourselves the executive
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I love it.
Natasha: Um, but we are al always, we're
Cate Tolnai (she/her): He,
Natasha: and we bounce
Cate Tolnai (she/her): yeah.
Natasha: We present our problems and our nuances and to have different perspectives to help you work through different things, especially as you get higher
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: So important. It's so, so important. Um, so you can have those, whether you're a 30 year educator or a first or second year educator, and you may not have all
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Right.
Natasha: have, you know, three people that kind of fit all of those eight things. Um, but it's important that you have those people to lean on, to bounce ideas off of, to
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: I don't know about you, but my husband doesn't work in education and coming home to vent to him about education.
Like he just doesn't
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: Um, so it's important that you have people that get it and can give you different
Cate Tolnai (she/her): That is such a gift. Is this your framework?
Natasha: No,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Well, it.
Natasha: it's not my framework. Well, kind of, well, let me say that. It is mine and chat GT's
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Thank you. Okay.
Natasha: Um, we did, I put what I needed and, and it gave me
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I just love it so much.
Natasha: to about it is like, it's so simple, right? But it's so impactful.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): writing a book? Are you gonna put Turn that into a book, my friend? That is a book.
Natasha: Do you know that is a dream of mine is to write a book. Um, it is so funny that you just said that,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Natasha: been on me, so I just,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Girl,
Natasha: all this advice about say Yes and do it and take the risk.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): know people. We know people.
Natasha: I
Cate Tolnai (she/her): keep that conversation going.
Natasha: would, let's do it. Hold me, hold
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I'll be, I'll be,
Natasha: accountable. I.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): just, you just described like chapters of your book and like, it would, I would have that book on my shelf because
Natasha: Oh,
Cate Tolnai (she/her): is, um, it's grounding, it's concrete, it's, it's actionable, you know, like it's empowering and in a way that like find your people kind of leaves you hanging.
Especially that we don't have Twitter anymore to find them so easily. Or I don't, I, I'm not on Twitter anymore. Um.
Natasha: we still are for
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: Yeah.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it's not the same, I think as it was, you know, eight years ago, nine years ago. So, um, okay. Well, next podcast will be your book debut. I'm just kidding.
We will keep talking about this because
Natasha: oh, we're
Cate Tolnai (she/her): obviously.
Natasha: are.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Um, you really are just like, I feel so, so wonderful and lighter and empowered talking to you. So thank you for giving me that. And I,
Natasha: you.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I'm so grateful that we got the time, um, to connect and, and that we're now orbiting together. And, um,
Natasha: Absolutely.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): just keep, I mean, keep doing what you're doing.
It's working.
Natasha: You too. You too. I, I just, I commend you for there is a space to bridge, no
Cate Tolnai (she/her): mm. Mm-hmm.
Natasha: to bridge newer teachers and experienced
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah,
Natasha: Because we need them to stay in the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): we do.
Natasha: we need them. My dissertation was about teacher attrition and the
Cate Tolnai (she/her): There we go.
Natasha: And so you, we need
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
Natasha: need you guys.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Don't jump ship.
Natasha: somewhere else. We need you.
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yes. And our system
Natasha: you for doing what you're
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. It is. It is truly my love letter and um, and I thank you for being you.
Natasha: Thank
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Until next time, my friend.